WW20: Legend of the Undercity

[Gazglum]

GUYBRUSH'S LOG: DAY 3

Our ship is rudderless and adrift on the open seas. We've lost most of our captains and mates, and the laughing skull is still bouncing around the crow's nest. Morale of crew high yesterday after bringing down the dragon, but sliding quickly. Banana and grog supplies running low, and certain crewmates are giving me hungry looks.

My own time at the helm has been a disaster. Piloting in rough seas, I lost Gaius Marius overboard. He should have held on tighter, but I still blame myself.

Time may be running out, both mine and my crew's. I hesitated yesterday, and it cost us. Today I must show my courage and take action.

Skull is rattling around in the hold now. It's time to sharpen my cutlass and my wits for what is to come.

Elaine, if you're reading this, I always remain your loving Threepykins.

[Bigger]

Ichabod - you have CLEARLY been acting anti-town all game. Isn't that enough?

[Ichabod]

Ichabod - you have CLEARLY been acting anti-town all game. Isn't that enough?

Anti-town it what ways?

[pindicator]

WW20 - Day 3: Post 1

Been editing and adding to this for a while now. A couple of questions for some of our party-goers, and a couple observations:

pindicator, why is your countdown different on day 1 and day 2?

Also explain your vote on gaius.

The countdown is entirely of my own making; it is not stipulated by uberfish. My restriction is that I can only post 10 times per day/night cycle, it says nothing about needing to track them. I've done countdowns for my own reference and on day 1 I wanted to see reactions.

I believe you are mistaken about Gaius; I've never voted for him. I did speak about him in this post, but it was a post that looked at what he did as a Tasunke teammate and I decided that it didn't fit.
I did vote Mattimeo yesterday, if that's what you meant. I still think Mattimeo is our best lynch. More on that below.

I don't believe Pindicator's restriction. Pindicator

And I don't believe jkaen's explanation for his, but I believe you have a reason for trusting him and I believe you're town.

I would only say judge me by the content of my posts, not by how many of them I make.
Certainly you've complained about the walls of text I've put out in day 1 - shouldn't that tell you I'm trying to get as much out as I can? What advantage can you see as me being scum and making up this post restriction and then (this is the key point) playing it like i have? It'd be one thing to make up a post restriction and then post little bits here and there. But I have not made anything up; instead I have tried to fit as much as possible into the space I have.

Now, I think these WOT posts have been a little detrimental because I don't see anybody acknowledging my points, so I will try to be a bit more honed in what I post today.

Ichabod, what are your thoughts about the evening discussions?


@Brick
What are your thoughts about Ichabod? You seemed upset he didn't get the noose yesterday. I expected you to go after him today. Do you still suspect him or just like Rowain more?


@Ryan
Good posts. Glad you're feeling better and really like what you said overnight. Well, i think you let things get a little personal when you responded to Bigger, but everybody falls into that trap now and then. Keep at it!


@Meiz

From where the hell did you pop up.

I lol-ed at work when i read that

But if you think Ichabod & Azza are a scum pair it would probably be the first time scum Azza has ever stuck his neck out to save a teammate.

And questions for you Meiz:

I don't really believe you Ichabod, you should know the posts you've made today.

My lynch order would be Ichabod -> Novice -> Gaius (who is lurking so much it hurts and his guilt depends so much on you alignment). So novice

What made you change your mind, Meiz? Why vote Gaius over Ichabod 30min later?

You do a last minute switch right after Mattimeo switches to Gaius. That reads like you care more about saving Mattimeo than you do lynching Ichabod.

The reasoning you give:

http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid338917
and
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid338923
is just poor. You assumed Ichabod would swap to save himself, but he never did. And you realized you "had a chance to make sure your other target is lynched" -- you figured that and posted the vote in less than a minute?

That's the second time during day 2 that you gave a reason for killing someone that i don't like.

Here's what i suspect- i suspect you and Mattimeo are a pair that panicked at the end of the day when you saw that Mattimeo was going to lose the tie-breaker. I did the math overnight from Brick's post count before the day was almost done.

Ichabod (5) - Gaius Serdoa Mattimeo Brick Meiz
Mattimeo (5) - Jkaen Novice Pind Molach Azza
Gaius (4) - Gazglum Q Ichabod Rowain
Novice (3) - Bigger Leewyn

5 minutes

Let's break that down by influence:

Ichabod (5 votes, 22 influence) - Gaius (5), Serdoa (5), Mattimeo (4), Brick (6), Meiz (2)
Mattimeo (5 votes, 17 influence) - jkaen (2), novice (4), pindicator (5), molach (5), azza (1)
Gaius (4 votes, 12 influence) - Gazglum (5), Qgqqqqq (3), Ichabod (2), Rowain (2)

You saw Mattimeo couldn't save himself by swapping to Gaius alone, because he would have lost that tie-breaker too. The only way was if you both swapped to save him. So you both jump at the last moment to save Matt. With less than 5 minutes to figure this out I think there was a lot of stress on you both and it showed in the late swap.

Also, How can you call the Mattimeo case random and then never comment on the case when novice presents it that night? You still haven't commented on it; i think you hope it just goes away.


-----

But let's not put the cart before the horse. My suspicion of Meiz relies on Mattimeo being scum. It fits with Tasunke being batshit crazy (we still love ya Tas ) and doing a crazy gambit, but that's not enough for me to vote Meiz again. Yet if Mattimeo should flip scum, then I think Meiz would look really bad.

So we should look at Mattimeo. Novice suspected him and I think for good cause. There was some discussion with Serdoa disagreeing. But I don't agree with Serdoa's point.

He wrote:

Sorry novice, but I reread now his posts and ask myself: What did you expect? He made a vote based on meta-speculation (that out of 4 neighbours one has to be scum and Molach fitted best with his play) and when Jkaen revealed that he had lied about his bond with Ichabod, he retracted his vote because the meta-speculation was based on 4 neighbours, not 2. What exactly should he defend against? That he made a vote due to meta - he did, nothing to defend against there. That he didn't find Molachs handling of the QT itself scummy but voted him for other reasons he found scummy and meta-speculation? He did, again, nothing to defend against. .

That stood out to me as well Serdoa, but it stood out for a completely different reason. Because Mattimeo was not the first person to push that theory. From day 1:

Probably more pertinently that the players whose characters are from the same game have some link - i.e. the two cats in the last version of this game. So Rowain-Molach and Jkaen-Ichabod are probably associated somehow. Wouldn't be surprised to see uber give them the one good/one bad treatment.

I don't know why a villager would parrot Gaspar's argument without unpacking it and telling us why we should believe it first. Because why would a villager trust Gaspar's arguments enough to repeat them? But a scum teammate... I can see them parroting after Gaspar flipped as a slip, not realizing where they got it from b/c they don't distrust Gaspar like a villager naturally would.


My top suspect is Mattimeo

And if he flips scum then Meiz, because a team of Gaspar, Tasunke, Meiz, & Mattimeo does fit for me.

[Ichabod]

It's hard having to defend against a case I don't see, Bigger. A case made behind the curtains, we could say.

[Mattimeo]

So the me-Meiz connection relies not only on someone who openly executed a scum player being scum themselves, but subsequently displaying enough of a connection to expose 2 (of a maximum 3, likely 2) remaining scum?

Fuck, that's atrocious. pindicator

I can only ask, if you are retarded enough to lynch me based on that argument, when I turn out town don't then twist that into it still being a good idea to go after someone who is definitely not wolf. Though with the level of logic you're displaying, I suppose I should be expecting it...

[Gazglum]

It's hard having to defend against a case I don't see, Bigger. A case made behind the curtains, we could say.

Ichabod, you've been clearly (and very funnily) trolling the whole game. You've made lynch attacks on me, Mattimeo, GausMarius, Flug_Auto, Meiz, Pindicator, Zak, Gaspar and Bigger at least - and been stirring up Brick where possible too. Your chatter isn't really helping guide the village to any useful conclusions. Speaking personally, I'm finding your posts hilarious and deeply distracting at the same time, which I think is your point.

You might not be a wolf, but I'm thinking you might have a role that doesn't win with the town. If you do get lynched and turn up village, you will have cost us a day and brought it on yourself with your playstyle. It seems to me the question is - what is the case for NOT bumping you off?

If it could be done outside the normal lynch.

Hypothetically.

[pindicator]

WW20 - Day 3: Post 2

So the me-Meiz connection relies not only on someone who openly executed a scum player being scum themselves, but subsequently displaying enough of a connection to expose 2 (of a maximum 3, likely 2) remaining scum?

Fuck, that's atrocious. pindicator

I can only ask, if you are retarded enough to lynch me based on that argument, when I turn out town don't then twist that into it still being a good idea to go after someone who is definitely not wolf. Though with the level of logic you're displaying, I suppose I should be expecting it...

Not as atrocious as you doding my question and discrediting my post by twisting my argument.

I am saying that if you turn out to be scum then we should look at Meiz. Until then anything on Meiz is too circumstantial -- like you said, he openly executed a scum, and that should count for something. I already wrote that in my last post.

But that has nothing to do with determining your innocence. So why do you post Meiz's actions as evidence to your innocence? Why does Meiz killing Tasunke have anything to do with your alignment?

Why not address my points on you in particular? Or how about novice's from last night?

Unless you're just trying to make my attack look bad without addressing it...

[Bigger]

It's hard having to defend against a case I don't see, Bigger. A case made behind the curtains, we could say.

Ichabod, you've been clearly (and very funnily) trolling the whole game. You've made lynch attacks on me, Mattimeo, GausMarius, Flug_Auto, Meiz, Pindicator, Zak, Gaspar and Bigger at least - and been stirring up Brick where possible too. Your chatter isn't really helping guide the village to any useful conclusions. Speaking personally, I'm finding your posts hilarious and deeply distracting at the same time, which I think is your point.

You might not be a wolf, but I'm thinking you might have a role that doesn't win with the town. If you do get lynched and turn up village, you will have cost us a day and brought it on yourself with your playstyle. It seems to me the question is - what is the case for NOT bumping you off?

If it could be done outside the normal lynch.

Hypothetically.

THANK YOU!!! LISTEN TO THIS POST!


it is possible ichabod is a survivor, or some other independent character. but there is no doubt he is anti-town.

[Qgqqqqq]

Or being SK...
I don't get why either arguments are being so readily dismissed.
He's a day vig for crying out loud - doesn't that feel a bit off as a village role, whereas it balances a SK well.

Here's how I see it: you have meta making you think he's innocent=I have meta making me think he's wolf/SK(with a strong SK lean)
But ignoring the meta (look at tehm as balancing out - though I know no-ones going to see it like that), he's made strongly scummy moves, and his tasunke attack is rather dodgy as a enthusiastic scum (either wolfbuddy or some sort of investigative SK) trying to show worth to the village.
For those who think I'm crazy for this strong SK idea here (http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid314233) is the WW17 SK (scroll down, second from last). A very powerful role to balance out being a small faction - how much more powerful would a uberfish SK be in a roles madness game?

My current lynch priorities: Molach>>Meiz>>>>>BRick=Bigger>>>Azza=Ichabod>>>>>>>>>Me.
The rest I haven't thouught about, really.