Diplomacy Master Thread- Helping Your Opponents Beat Themselves

[scooter]

Re: CivPlayers, what are they expecting us to respond to? The only questions they asked was about our war plans. I almost want to just say "uh, why should we tell you when you won't commit to anything?" So I'm thinking about how to respond here. They really are just stalling again. We still would like a NAP that stretches beyond T150 to free us up to hit the German team, but I don't think we need to be desperate about it since we do technically have an "out" with WPC if CivPlayers gets aggressive with us (and sends their terrifying army of warriors at us).

Also, we're definitely not paying them for routes now .

[kjn]

And now CivPlayers do 3 1-pop and 1 2-pop whip.

Not going to offer any bets on a revolt to theocracy for CivPlayers soon.

[novice]

And now CivPlayers do 3 1-pop and 1 2-pop whip.

Not going to offer any bets on a revolt to theocracy for CivPlayers soon.

If they have a target with less than 10turn warning, it's going to get steamrolled.

Do we have contact with UCiv or Apolyton? Do CivFR or CFC? We should warn CP's neighbours, and if they reply that they have a NAP we should worry.

[Ceiliazul]

Giving another team warning doesnkt have much benefit to us, I think. If we can flash a couple elephants on the BbB border, hopefully that will help point CPlayers the other way.

We do need to respond about "junk lands" between us and Aztec. Silence in that area could be taken as permission to settle a crowded city near BbB.

[kjn]

Yeah, I think we should warn off CivPlayers that settling further westwards will be treated as a clear provocation.

A city 2SE of the cow (3E of Tlaxcala) would directly threaten our connected source of horses, and destroy our irrigation chain to the wheat.

A city 3E of Xochicalco would force us into a stupid naval buildup to protect our three existing cities on the sea.

About the only location in the area I could allow them would be 2SW of the clams - ST will control the eastern riverside easily and will soon put claims to the western as well if it lands the HG (which is almost certain at this point).

[kjn]

Giving another team warning doesnkt have much benefit to us, I think. If we can flash a couple elephants on the BbB border, hopefully that will help point CPlayers the other way.

Goodwill can be of great, if not tangible, benefit.

Now, how to carry word to Apolyton and CivFr about CivPlayers? (Unless we are the target, of course.) We have to use a conduit, and the only teams that we can be reasonably sure have contact with both of them are the Germans, the Spanish, and Univers. None of them feel ideal, but I think the Spanish would be the best option.

Besides, if it gets to our elephants and catapults versus their HAs, I almost wish they'd declare, so we could raze Xochicalco, negotiate peace, and settle our preferred spot on the southwestern shore.

[novice]

Giving another team warning doesnkt have much benefit to us, I think. If we can flash a couple elephants on the BbB border, hopefully that will help point CPlayers the other way.

We do need to respond about "junk lands" between us and Aztec. Silence in that area could be taken as permission to settle a crowded city near BbB.

Agreed. But the point of giving warning is to have the war devolve into a stalemate instead of a roflstomp.

[novice]

Besides, if it gets to our elephants and catapults versus their HAs, I almost wish they'd declare, so we could raze Xochicalco, negotiate peace, and settle our preferred spot on the southwestern shore.

Careful what you wish for. Repelling an attack won't be cheap.

[Sullla]

Yes, now that the headaches with CFC are out of the way (for now), we need to shift our attention towards CivPlayers. It's blatantly obvious that they are going to declare war on someone soon. They have teched Construction, Horseback Riding, and now Theology tech. They're going to use the sacrificial altars to do a ton of whips and produce a whole bunch of two-promo units to go and conquer someone. Maybe we are the target, maybe not. But we need to pin them down diplomatically one way or the other, so that we can start our own preparations. They have said virtually nothing whatsoever thus far, and they can initiate a 10 turn cooldown for the Non-Aggression Pact in as little as five turns from now. That's not much warning.

I still can't make up my mind as to whether CivPlayers is playing a deep diplomatic game of subterfuge and trickery, or if they simply are really bad at anything involving diplo and don't really care about that side of the game. It could be either one. They actually do not have Open Borders with any team that we can see on the F4 screen, so that might lean towards "team of MP guys who simply don't care about diplo". Have to be careful we don't make any assumptions though. Here's what I would like us say towards them, someone can write it up in diplo speak:

* We're happy with the current border between our teams, and the land in between is pretty terrible. How about we both agree not to settle past that river that runs between our territory, we both leave the current buffer zone between Xochicalco/Seven Tribe unoccupied, and leave it at that? [Note that the ivory is on our side of the river.]

* It's obvious you guys are going to declare war on someone soon (HBR, Construction, Theocracy, whips, etc.)

* Our current deal doesn't provide much security at all. Either one of us can trigger the NAP cooldown in like 5 turns.

* We're not planning on attacking anyone, and have long-running NAPs with all of our neighbors. If our teams can't agree to some kind of dealing providing more security, we have to assume that you're going to declare war, and begin our military buildup right now.

* So therefore, we're watching you, we won't be an easy opponent to beat. You can see our research, we'll have our own catapults and horse archers to fight back. Sign something with us now and go kill a weaker team. It's in both of our interests to do so.

Putting them in nicer terms, of course, but we need to get that general message across. Don't screw with our team, neither one of us will get anything out of it. Go kill some loser team that doesn't know what they are doing. If I were them, I wouldn't be too keen to go charging into the strongest team on the map who has 15 turns to prepare and knows darn well that the attack is coming. And on our end, we want to get some of deal worked out ASAP so that we can know what our planning will look like (heavy military or more infrastructure).

Let's get work together and get something out to them today.

[kjn]

To Sullla and everyone else, CivPlayers does NOT have Construction yet. That's an error from a faulty early analysis I made.