RB Pitboss #1 SPOILER - Hatshepsut / India

[regoarrarr]

Another email exchange with shadyforce

Yes, the huts comment was a joke. Don't worry. The correct answer is "welcome!". My scout is on a forest looking accross that fjord near you. I can see your second warrior emerging from your capital. I almost missed you... I spent about 5 minutes trying to decide whether to continue exploring further or double back towards my capital. I'm glad I kept going since I found the coast (or at least a fjord connected to it?) and a friendly face. It was getting rather lonely. Yes, you are my first contact.

Can I assume your first warrior went East-ish? If so, is there anybody or anything of interest that way or just more forest? There's a hint of boreal about this map (this island at least) so I think your fast workers are a wise choice. I'm beelining maths as we speak

Oh and I agree about communication being important. Email any time you want. From playing various different diplomatic games, I know it pays to talk to everyone, often.

Excellent. My first warrior went north actually, and I have not found anyone yet. I am expecting SOMEONE to be up there. But I only have warriors so they're half as fast as your scouts.

So reading between the lines (and still not being able to see the game - though you're being awfully tempting to have me leave work early so I can check!), you are to the west of me? My capital, as you can probably see (or soon will be able to) is on a narrow strip of land with coast to the west and east. You actually won't be able to get to the north of me till one of us gets Writing. So given that you have been scouting east, and this is Turn 9, would you agree that our capitals are about 15-20 tiles apart?

Have you found much good land between us? To the north it has been very resource poor - a sheep and a clam and then nothing but forest till I did find one oasis last turn. There is also a cow to my east.

So if you are beelining Maths, then you are (hold on - checking what you start with) researching Pottery now? I am researching BW and can give you a heads up on copper locations in a few turns. Too bad we can't trade yet :-D

So will you be scouting east then, or heading back home? My plan had been for my 2nd warrior to kind of hang out for awhile but to send the next warrior to the east, but if you're heading back that way, maybe we could do a bit of map description exchanging? Or contacts brokering of some sort.

Before I forget I should mention my chatting accounts, if that's something that you do. Obviously since we're both on gmail, we can use that if that's something you do. I also am on Yahoo IM as fonnny (3 n's) and AOL IM as superdoubledan.

I actually think he would have researched Fishing on T6, and then probably is researching The Wheel now to do Pottery next but I figured I wouldn't give all my secrets away just yet!

I don't know how much scouting exchanging we can do but it would be nice to know if there was a lot of land to the east. Though if that's the case, and there's another civ to the north, that puts me in a brokering position in the middle of those civs, which seems against the aims of the map.

I'd be interested to know what his capital is like, if he is similarly on a narrow strip of land like I am

[regoarrarr]

Long chat with shadyforce

me: hey - regoarrarr here
have you already played this next turn (that started bout an hour ago)?
Sent at 7:27 PM on Thursday
Shadyforce: I did, yes
me: ah ok
where did you send the scout?
Shadyforce: moved north 1 to peek into Cincinnati

but I'm still open as to exploration plans
me: tis a lovely place, don't you think?
Shadyforce: yes, a nice plains hill tile
me: ok - will you be around in about an hour to an hour and a half?
Shadyforce: that's 0130-0200 here, so probably not (work in the morning)
me: ah ok
well i guess we have all next turn to figure out the scout moving
so is your capital on the coast?
i.e. nothing to your east?
Shadyforce: yes, the south east coast
there is land to the north and east of it though
me: so have you explored to the north at all?
Shadyforce: how much, I'm not sure
no, I started west and then north
me: so what's your estimate on number of tiles west and north that cincinnati is from your cap?
Shadyforce: you were spot on with 15-20
not sure exactly
me: so is it straight west
or more northwest
just trying to get a feel for this map
what we might expect
hopefully you don't mind my fishing question
i give as good as i ask, promise :-D
Shadyforce: I'm too nice to say no
ok, around 10 tiles south of your capital is south coast, 10 tiles west of that is me
me: youi mean east?
Shadyforce: but I estimate that from your capital, it could be more like 15 tiles east to the coast
*east
me: right
Shadyforce: you know what I mean
me: well 15 tiles east of my capital could easily be water
as this fjord is pretty big and i see no end to it
(and it's saltwater as far as i can tell)
Shadyforce: how long is your isthmus?
me: maybe 6 or 7 tiles before it starts getting fat in the north
to the south i don't know
there does look like more land to the northeast, north of this fjord
but my 1 move warrior hasn't discovered much
Shadyforce: tbh, it would be strange if there was a substantial land mass and no civ there
me: exactly
Shadyforce: trying to second guess the map-maker, it would put you at a buig advantage over me on the continent
me: that was why my plan was to continue north till i found him
Shadyforce: so do you want to send the 2nd warrior up there?
me: well i'm probably going to keep him around close
but i am planning on building another one soon that i can sen dnorth
to be frank, i am paranoid about losing my capital to a roaming warrior
twould be just my luck to lose my first MP game like that :-D
Shadyforce: I know...
I normally go worker first in all my single games
me: me too
Shadyforce: but that's a big risk in this game
if there was someone to the north of my capital, I think it likely they would have walked past either me or you
but there could still be someone to the east of us
so if you're doing a bit of exploring with your 2nd warrior, that direction would be the way to go
me: but if there is someone to your north and my east, then how does this john nolan fjord work?
Shadyforce: so that you would bump into an explorer heading your way - to give you enough warning
me: (i'm being liberal in my namings)
seems like your north cannot connect to my north
or else this fjord would be a lake
and 2/0/2
right?
Shadyforce: I meant my north which is south of the sea to your east
me: ah
i didn't realize there was that much to your north, but you did say you were about 10 tiles further south than me
Sent at 7:45 PM on Thursday
me: when do you expect to tech fishing? any thoughts of sending an exploring WB out?
Shadyforce: I have it
(it took 6 turns)
me: ah cool
Shadyforce: yes, I'll surely do that at some stage, but I don't think I want to do it before I have, say, 3 cities because 30 shields is a lot
me: yeah
so do you think we're all on the same landmass?
Shadyforce: it's possible, but I don't think so
Sent at 7:49 PM on Thursday
Shadyforce: it's more likely that the sea is all connected with snaky continents everytwhere than the continents connected and the seas seperate
me: that makes sense
Shadyforce: that would be a more typical map... but then again sullla did say this was a strange one, so you never know
me: do you have ivory at your capital?
Shadyforce: yes, I'm whipping elephants as we speak
me: i was just figuring that after the complaints from the apolyton game about 1 team having all the ivory that either everyone would have it or nobody
and that's quite the tech pace you're setting!
Shadyforce: have you got it?
popped them all from huts
Sent at 7:52 PM on Thursday
me: well i had heard that scouts got better results from tribal villages....
Shadyforce: what counters elephants? build lots of them
pikes I guess
me: yeah i guess
i'm not much of an mp player
but i heard they were good
Shadyforce: I'm learning loads from the apolyton demo game
the C&D department is particularly useful
me: ah so what has the c&d department told you about me?
Shadyforce: that you started building a warrior, worked a 3 food tile, and the warrior was complete on the same turn as your city reched size 2 (turn 8)?
me: you're a genius!!!!! :-D
Sent at 7:57 PM on Thursday
Shadyforce: hehe, ok so not exactly rocket science that, but I'm practicing for later in the game when it will be more important
Sent at 7:58 PM on Thursday
me: so how could you tell that i worked a 3 food tile?
Shadyforce: ah now that would be telling
me: besides the fact that you can see my city at size 2 on T9
Shadyforce: your score increased on turn 8 by 2 pts,which is a city size increase
8 turns on 3 food is an increase
I suppose you could have spent 2 turns on a 2 food tile
me: ah that makes sense. I was thinking you could tell that i was working a 3 food tile from the start
Shadyforce: just like you could have had an empty build queue for 8 turns rather than build a warrior, guess work fills the gaps
me: i mean from the demographics you can tell that SOMEONE (best food) is working a 3 food tile
Shadyforce: at one point, someone had 4 shields and someone else has 2 food... which suggests someone was working a forest plains hill tile
me: could be someone that starts on the coast and with fishing doing a WB
or someone doing a warrior or quechua rush
Shadyforce: or an expansive civ going worker first
me: wouldn't an expansive civ never have 4 shields on a worker?
because 4 shields would mean 5?
Shadyforce: ? I don't get you
me: they get 25% bonus
Shadyforce: oh right... would it show up as 4 or 5 shields on the demographics
me: so if they have 3 shields, they get 0 bonus
if they have 4 shields towards a worker, they get 1 bonus
so it would be 5
Shadyforce: I assumed it would only show up as 4,but you could be right
me: yeah i don' tknow
Shadyforce: another thing I realised watching the demo game...
isn't it amazing how swords get completely ignored from MP games? they seem like the standard city-raiding unit in single player, but the guys laughed at building swords in the demo game
me: hmm
i didn't realize that
Sent at 8:08 PM on Thursday
me: well we have chatted long enough that it is now too dark for me to mow the lawn
so i guess i will play my turn
Shadyforce: glad I could help you skip chores

Also see picture of Cincinnati on Turn 10 attached.

Commentary in next post.

[regoarrarr]

Okay then. A few random thoughts.

* Looks like he is doing his own C&D department. The astute observer will notice how I drew out confirmation that he researched Fishing.
* It sure is looking that I am in the middle of this continent. Gotta figure someone is in the north, though I'm not sure where. And probably someone to my west. Need to get some more scouts out and about

On to some C&D numbers of my own. Buddhism founded on T9! Ruff, Broker and ZPV all got techs but only Broker starts with Mysticism, so I am making the call that he researched Meditation. The only other 80 base beaker tech is Masonry, which the other 2 could have researched but that just seemed like a really odd opening tech. Looking at things more closely, to get Meditation in just 9 turns, Broker had to run a 2 commerce tile for at least 3 turns (otherwise 13 * 9 = 117). We can see that on T3-6 someone jumped up to a GNP of 22, which would signify a Creative leader (Broker) doing just that. So as for Ruff and ZPV, I am making the call that they researched Agriculture which is 60 base beakers but carries no pre-req bonus. And not to mention is a starting tech that makes a lot more sense!!

* Broker also became the 4th civ to grow to size 2 this turn. If I am counting correctly, his capital will be the first to pop size 3 borders on T16.

* There appears to be only 2 warriors that have been built (3 counting my own), which seems odd. Though I guess we can't all be blessed with plains hill capitals (I actually think I may be the only one).

* Shadyforce's capital is on a coast, and (if you didn't read the whole chat), is about 10 tiles east and 10 tiles south of Cincinnati (the SE coast of this landmass). There is unexplored land to his north, but it doesn't seem to connect to the land to my NE.

* I think initial talks with Shadyforce are going well. We have sort of arranged a scouting cooperative. He is going to continue west while I work north. Unless you think that I should go west to try and delay him from finding any civs over there?

[regoarrarr]

As I continue to reply to myself, I thought it might be interesting to see what is up with the folks that are lagging on the bottom of the score-heap because they have yet to research their first tech.

So that would be me, dsplaisted, and sunrise.

Obviously I am researching BW.

With 10 turns of research, we're looking at at least 100 beakers of starting tech or 120 beakers of a tech for which there is a pre-req

So, dsplaisted must be researching Bronze Working too - other option would be Masonry (120) which I'd have expected to see on T10.

The options for sunrise are Meditation (120), Masonry (120), Polytheism (150), or Sailing (150). Again, Med or Masonry I'd have expected to see last turn, and Sailing first sure would be an odd choice, so I'm going to say that he will found Hinduism on T12 (possibly T11 if he really pushed). He's not creative so if he was working a 2 (or 3 commerce tile) it would only be 21 GNP and would not show up as a definitive "Best" on the demos.

I mean after all, he's not only Spain on a lake, he's FINANCIAL Spain on a lake. So yeah, whenever Imhotep plays his turn here and it rolls over to T11, I expect Sunrise to found Hinduism.

[regoarrarr]

Another email from Shadyforce

I'm going to explore that foggy patch north of my start. I'm just too curious as to what's there and I don't want to have to wait until my next scout.

I told him I would send a unit west.

Also I noticed that shady's capital grew to size 2 and sunrise got a tech, which I am assuming was Polytheism / Hinduism, though I won't be able to tell for sure till I log in in about 3 hours

[regoarrarr]

Okay - 3 turns played over the course of the evening and morning.

Since shady said he was going to explore back to the east, I thought I would send Bob the warrior to the west just for a bit. My plan was to have him circle around counterclockwise to a) not get too far from the capital) and b) explore the area near the cow.

I did not realize that he was going to be such a woodsman that he would make it all the way to the west coast!!!!

After moving him on to the hill this morning (T13), I spotted more seafood and .... is that.... some borders over there? Hard to tell on this screenshot but I believe it it the pink borders of spain. So I dropped an email to sunrise, hoping that it is within the spirit of the rules.

Hello there!

I hope that this email is within the spirit of the rules as we have not *quite* met yet. But, consider this "knocking on your door". I believe that you have a clam and some coast to the NE of your capital. I am directly NE of you, on a separate landmass (as far as I can tell). So if you put a unit up on the forested hill south of the clam, he and my warrior Bob can engage in a rock skipping contest!

I have a few more thoughts and comments to say, but I will wait until hearing back from you to make sure our conversations are "legit"

Or, if I am just getting somewhat color blind in my old age and those borders are someone elses, feel free to let me know and disregard the gigantic spoiler of knowing that someone else has clams to the NE of their capital!!!! :-D

Alex in the north continues exploring - he will move on to the sheep hill next turn. Gotta be a civ up here. But definitely think only 1 scout is needed - maybe a scout and a warrior? Or maybe right on to workers / settlers.


1 turn to BW, and 5 turns to the worker. I will post with some demographic analysis next post.

[regoarrarr]

Okay. Here are the turn 13 demos.

Sunrise as predicted, did land Polytheism on T11, founding Hinduism, to which he has since converted.

Shady and sunrise both grew to size 2 on T11 as well

Nothing happened on T12

T13 - Shady got a 2nd tech, which is likely either Mining or Mysticism (75 beakers / 7 turns). There was also an increase of 2000 soldier points, so I am penciling him in for Mining. I'm also starting to think that he built a warrior first, maybe accounting for the 2000 points on T7 and T8 that I am just guessing on.

[Dantski]

The spot Bob is on sure looks like a good place to found a GP farm for our 3rd/4th city. It has 14 coastal tiles and is an obvious Moai city.

Good idea to check there's no route to Spain south.

[regoarrarr]

The spot Bob is on sure looks like a good place to found a GP farm for our 3rd/4th city. It has 14 coastal tiles and is an obvious Moai city.

Good idea to check there's no route to Spain south.

Yes I agree. Possibly 1N depending on if copper pops on the southern hill or if that's negotiated with sunrise. It might be tough to get that southern clam with the holy culture of Madrid, though we are creative and he's not

[regoarrarr]

Turn 14 rolled around, and Bronze Working came in. Being spiritual, and with events off, and no civic maintenance because my cities are so small, there seemed no downside to revolting to Slavery. And plus it will hopefully help me sleep better about losing to a warrior rush.

(Seriously last night I was in bed worried I had moved my warrior 1 tile too far and he wouldn't be able to get back in time in case some warrior moved on Cincinnati)

And the copper is..... nowhere None visible anywhere on the map.

In the north, Alex could not move on to the sheep hill due to a lion 1N, so he moved east and will move east onto another hill next turn.

I have not heard back from sunrise, and he has already played his turn, so maybe he thinks that we shouldn't communicate till we really meet? At a worst case, I should be able to officially meet him once his borders expand, which should be on T27 if I'm calculating correctly.

So I moved Bob 1SE and will continue to scout that coast.

5 people got techs. dsplaisted and I researched BW, and he also revolted (someone has a 1 for GNP - he's not spiritual as I am so he is in anarchy this turn).

Krill / Memphus - I'm going with Mining as it took them 8 turns and they (previously only with 2000 soldier points) are no longer the worst (worst is now 3000, which I think is broker and sunrise)

zpv - Hunting as it only took 5 turns and he started with Fishing

dreylin - took 8 turns. 80 beakers of a starting tech or 100 for a pre-req. I'm going with Mining also. That also explains my missing 2000 soldiers (though it's possible that instead it could be someone building a warrior).

T15 should rollover here before too long