RB Pitboss #1 SPOILER - Catherine of Sumeria

[kalin]

Yep, barely exciting indeed

I was hoping somehow the scout would make it to the forested hill, but oh well... I was going to suggest revealing the coast btw I think warrior should move next E or SE as there seems to be a clearing in the forest. The scout should indeed move SE first then depending if something is spotted SE again? I read somewhere that you win the first battle no matter what on lower levels, but maybe someone can confirm.

K

[Dreylin]

The scout should indeed move SE first then depending if something is spotted SE again? I read somewhere that you win the first battle no matter what on lower levels, but maybe someone can confirm.

That was my Mehmed thread after Bear Slayer got his name ... and came from T-Hawk, so I agree with the SE, SE plan.

[Dreylin]

Well, Mining came in and Bronze working started - due in 15t. Scout went SE, SE as discussed, with some more wooded area and the river revealed. Warrior moves East and ... we have our first neighbour:



I just sent a quick message from our g-mail:

Greetings Sunrise,

Our exploring Warrior has just reached your borders and our two civilisations are now met. We hope that in the future we can work together for the betterment of both.

Dreylin of the League

EDIT: Warrior should probably move E, SE to get a good view of sunrise's land.

[kalin]

Yay! Contact That's good as sunrise has mysticism so we'll get a discount no? Note that he got Hinduism, so hopefully we'll get religion from him. Also, I am rather glad to see one of the non-aggressive civs as neighbor. We should however expand in that direction I think we want those cows by the corn!

I fully agree with moving the warrior E-SE. With the +5 culture from Hinduism he'll expand rather quickly.

Scout should move SE, then decide depending on what will be revealed.

EDIT: Just noticed the lake! Financial Spain on a lake => religion! The other thought was that he is quite close, so if we have copper... I mean, just a thought

Kalin

[Dreylin]

Argh! Sorry kalin, I just mis-clicked and moved the Scout badly.

Moved SE as discussed and spotted coast further SE. I wanted to put off finishing his move and the turn to give us a chance to discuss, so I went to move the Warrior ... and accidentally clicked the Scout to move back North again.

I was going to suggest we went SW after SE, since it looks likely that the East is just a penninsula. So I'd still suggest we move him S, SW next turn.

Warrior moved towards sunrise as discussed. Not sure whether I'm pleased that there's not an early-rush civ next door, or disappointed that it's sunrise - who is one of the most experienced MP players in this game, and who has proven himself an extremely competent general while leading the RB team in the Apolyton demogame.

EDIT: I'm starting to wonder if the map is one big snakey strip of land - oroburos wrap-around - so we'll have one neighbour either side on-land an maybe more close-by across the water.

[kalin]

Warrior moved towards sunrise as discussed. Not sure whether I'm pleased that there's not an early-rush civ next door, or disappointed that it's sunrise - who is one of the most experienced MP players in this game, and who has proven himself an extremely competent general while leading the RB team in the Apolyton demogame.

EDIT: I'm starting to wonder if the map is one big snakey strip of land - oroburos wrap-around - so we'll have one neighbour either side on-land an maybe more close-by across the water.

Don't worry about the misclick, it's not that big a deal. It happens.

I agree with the proposed move for the scout: S - SW.

Regarding the warrior and sunrise, what do we do if we find an undefended capital? I don't know anybody here, so I am glad you know the players to have a better take on how to react. Since he is a very good player we have to be more cautious on the military side I'd say. Mansa of Spain is a pretty good combo with the conquistadors and highly promoted siege, so I'd expect him to want to wait until then to attack us for example. Since we are here we should discuss a bit his civ and how to deal with sunrise short, medium and long term (assuming he has defense in the capital ).

Your conjecture about the map may be correct, but we still have lots of exploration to do. I was thinking that we need to find a couple of city spots close by soonish. We expand to 3rd ring on turn 25, but that won't reveal that much. Maybe second warrior can reveal coast to the west?

The general plan was: size 3 -> worker farms corn -> another warrior? -> chop second worker -> chop settlers? For research I am wondering if to do AH for horses before pottery: BW -> AH -> pottery -> writing -> mysticism -> meditation -> priesthood.

Kalin

[Dreylin]

Regarding the warrior and sunrise, what do we do if we find an undefended capital? I don't know anybody here, so I am glad you know the players to have a better take on how to react. Since he is a very good player we have to be more cautious on the military side I'd say. Mansa of Spain is a pretty good combo with the conquistadors and highly promoted siege, so I'd expect him to want to wait until then to attack us for example. Since we are here we should discuss a bit his civ and how to deal with sunrise short, medium and long term (assuming he has defense in the capital ).

Well I really don't know what to do if his capital is undefended. I checked in-game, and his borders will pop a turn or two after ours, so we don't need to worry about that. Really it's probably the right thing to make a move if it's empty at the start of the turn after next, but it certainly feels a bit cheesy to me. If it succeeds we kill the game host, if it fails we earn an enemy we'd rather not have imo.

What's interesting to me is that we haven't had any message back from him in response to our greeting. Not sure what to make of that tbh, I'd expected just a generic greeting (after all, that's all we sent). My only thought is that maybe he doesn't want to risk revealing anything about his situation by sending a message...?

Your conjecture about the map may be correct, but we still have lots of exploration to do. I was thinking that we need to find a couple of city spots close by soonish. We expand to 3rd ring on turn 25, but that won't reveal that much. Maybe second warrior can reveal coast to the west?

The general plan was: size 3 -> worker farms corn -> another warrior? -> chop second worker -> chop settlers? For research I am wondering if to do AH for horses before pottery: BW -> AH -> pottery -> writing -> mysticism -> meditation -> priesthood.

I'm not sure I'd go AH next unless either we don't see Copper, or we quickly spot animals we want to pasturise. I would say a second Scout after the Worker, then second Worker, second Warrior, Settler. I think that a Scout will let us cover more of the surrounding area in a speedy fashion, and can then head off long-distance.

[Dreylin]

Scout move S, SW:



Suggest SW->S would reveal most tiles, although SW->W would also reveal many.

sunrise's capital is empty this turn:



however it's worth noting two things: the city looks fairly similar to ours with Corn & lots of forested tiles, so if he's done anything similar to use in terms of builds then he probably has a Warrior / Scout due on the next turn - as our second is. Also note that the city is still working the Corn tile; that does imply that he doesn't feel it necessary to maximise production into a defending unit. I wouldn't be surprised if next turn we log in to see Madrid at size3 with a Warrior sitting inside....

[kalin]

A bit in a rush. will fill in later with more details, but I wanted to say two things: we need to think and talk for a bit to make a decision, and sunrise got Hinduism on turn 11 I think, and I am almost sure he must have worked that lake for some time.

EDIT: I think we should chat (gmail) at some point today or tomorrow. Today unfortunately is a bit tight for me. The thought I am having is that we *either* go for the capital (he may have started a worker for all we know at size 2) *or* secure some NAP for a long time, in particular for the time of his conquistadors. I think sunrise is at a disadvantage here, as even if we don't/cannot take his capital, he won't be able to develop as well with our warrior around. The fact that he is still working the corn may (a bit of wishful thinking) mean that he cannot get out a warrior in time, or that his warrior is within range of coming back. If we fail, we'll gain an enemy surely, but he's one of our closest neighbors, so who is he going to go to war against anyway? We'll probably fight anyway at some point. The drawback if we succeed would be that we become the top dog, which won't be so good...

Anyway, I am not suggesting we go in yet. We should consider the options very carefully though. We should maybe wait for sunrise to move first next turn though

K

[Dreylin]

A bit in a rush. will fill in later with more details, but I wanted to say two things: we need to think and talk for a bit to make a decision, and sunrise got hinduism on turn 11 I think, and I am almost sure he must have worked that lake for some time.

OK, I've run a brief Sim and you're right.

Poly was discovered in 3560BC - which is the interturn between t11 & t12. At a minimum, that would have required working the lake for 2 turns. If he had shifted to the lake as soon as borders expanded, Poly would have come between t10 & t12.

Assuming max-growth, first unit would have come out on t13. Switching then to Corn & grass forest hill would give size3 on t17 and a second unit on t18.

We are on t17 right now, so remember he has 2 more turns of prodution to get a unit in there. Assuming similar capital to ours, that's 8h.

I would be surprised if he went straight to Worker after size2 & completing his first unit - note that his first three techs are Fishing, Mysticism & Polytheism; none are Worker techs. He's probably on something similar to our plan (w/-2h), so growth & Warrior should be in the next couple of turns.

I would also opine that as an extremely experienced MP player, he's unlikely to have left his capital emtpy and vulnerable.

I council against going in.