AT loves it when a plan comes together!! [Spoilers]

[MindyMcCready]

Well, we never had a 1 turn complete surprise on his capital - we could 1 turn it with a 5 mover - how much would that suck for him? from out of nowhere, he loses his capitol, and has no idea how. We could do that in a few turns - it would require a turn to upgrade a galley,a turn to pick up the units and then "boom!" Of course, that's risky, too - a fortified archer defends at 8.55 with a 60% city against an amphib attack.

Honestly, that would be kind of fun.

T1 BOOM out of nowhere Citadel is razed to the ground. T2: Noveria is taken and held. 2 CRIII maces, might get the job done with a follow up slow galley from BJ. Heh, we might get a rage quit out of Jowy yet.

Well we might have to revisit that if he isn't reasonable about peace. But I'd rather have the 5 super galleys that we'll need to take and hold his capital.

Also, I think TT picked up Metal Casting, so he's the only one who could trade it and he clearly wants Jowy behind

Ah, that's why. Nice. So he's not getting it anytime soon with out researching it himself.

[AutomatedTeller]

Lots of generals!!



Offered Jowy peace for 10 gpt. Doubt he'll take it, but maybe. I don't think we could get 200 and 20 gpt.



I think that rumors of Azza's demise are a little overrated - that's a lot of catapults!!



When I saw this, I thought that I should rename my scout...



I, of course, did not. But watching these maces go by a wide open city...

Demos:


Power



Haven't ended turn yet - I did move a stack into threaten Jowy some. He got an LB in Citadel. Also, moved the galley in a place were we can threaten Noveria in a couple of turns.

I used the scientist on an academy and turned the galley builds to catapult/settler.

it's just 1 turn to swtich, if we want...

[AutomatedTeller]

T 149 followup:

I have 4 more sites I want to settle soon, plus a couple of more fillin:



I'm thinking the red diamond, the square, the circle and star. I'd like to get the yellow circle, though TT may dislike that idea

there's another spot with seafood by the barb city and that's about it for sites with food bonuses. There are ones I'd be happier with if we were expansive or organized (cheap granaries/lighthouses), but not so much with no buildings at all.


Also, I'm thinking about offering whale to commo for stone. stone would help in bulding moai...

[AutomatedTeller]

jowy did not accept peace and didn't counter-offer. He has abandoned Rannoch.

I must remember to let TT go first next turn, since if Rannoch is still open, he gets first shot at it.

He whipped 6 pop last turn and now has a LB in virmire. The LB he had in citadel has moved out.

pics later.

oh - Jowy now has metal casting, so I'm thinking I should get a caravel in the water, cause he could, conceivably, kill my trireme with 3 triremes, which would be annoying. I'm making a workboat in CHiPs for a 2nd whale, for trading - I'll make a caravel the next turn.

Ok - Rannoch:



I did a sim and if he plops an LB in there, we'll lose a mace taking it, but we'll take it.

Of course, I think TT has priority - do lurkers agree? He moved first the last two turns - I moved first this one (cause I didn't think about it, really). I THINK he should go first next turn and gets first crack at the city. Do lurkers agree?

ALF:



I was going build culture, but I decided to let it grow and be able to whip in a catapult in 7 turns.

I didn't get a pic, but my current galley plan is this:

Whip in the galley in LA Law.
Move the galley, pike and GG south on t151.
Move south to staging place on t152. Join up with galley with 2 maces.
On T153 (or any later turn) if Noveria is empty, attach the GG to one of the maces, giving all 5 units 4 xp. Give the galleys flanking and nav I and then boat Noveria.



Noveria will have 2 maces and a pike and will be tough enough to handle anything that can get there until I get 2 LB there.

It ain't Citadel, but it works.

trade with commodore:



He has an extra deer and I have extra fish - should have done this awhile ago

Power:



Demos:



V



Getting good, going to be great.

Haven't shown our tech tree recently:



Working on Guilds, 6 turns.

oh - Commodore took back the city he took and 2Metra took back. 2metra whipped down another 6 pop points - presumably, he's adding a ton of LB.


So, looking at upgrades:

Pikes/maces/croswbows upgrade to either rifles or grenadiers... but LB and Muskets only to rifles? That's something I didn't realize - I guess we want to go to Rifling, then, not Mil science

[AutomatedTeller]

oh - it turns out I was wrong about canals and cities.

I believe is that for a city to allow a boat in it, it has to be next to water and a fort is considered a city (and it has to be in your culture)

thus, you can build a canal two tiles wide, if both sides are next to water. you can chain through lakes - you can chain through a city, if that city is on water.

Thus this canal isn't legal:



you can get into any of the forts, but not the city, because it's not on water. however, this:



is legal.

If you replace the city with a fort, that's ok, too.

later, we'll probably be boating people out of the blue

[AutomatedTeller]

I'm thinking that turn 150 makes for an interesting time to look at the game and where people are:

In alphabetical order:

Azza - On his way out. Cornflakes made a brutal, clearly multi-pronged, attack with, I assume, Impis. he's never really recovered, never really got to use his traits (cheap libs, forges, theaters), never really got to get his UB in play (forum). Obviously, he's been warring and has his praets up and running.

Commoodore - leveraging one of his traits (imperialistic) very well - has the most cities and has made a couple of attacks. Hasn't done much with wonders, though presumably he's got forges everywhere by now. he's probably winning the game right now, though it's still early enough that any of 5 teams could win, I think. Clearly, got use from his UB - dunno that he got use from his UU, except as barb busters.

Cornflakes - one of the major powers in the game, though I think his war on Azza is probably hurting him now. He's spending a lot on units. I assume he's got forge everywhere by now. Hasn't built as many wonders as I expected. Got good use from his impis and, I presume, is getting some from his ikhanda

Jowy - under expanded and has a ton of forests left, which means a lot of opportunity wasted in elephants. that said, I think his land isn't all that great (which doesn't stop me from wanting it tried to get great use out of his UU - basically, got screwed because I accidentally sandbagged - it looked like I was really weak, but I turned out to be really strong. All part of my plan. Might not be done - a philo civ can do amazing things with bulbs.
My guess is that he hasn't build lots of barays - I think the baray is a very nice UB - definitely more useful than the ones that add health, because it helps you grow - but it's expensive.

2Metra - dunno. I'm surprised he got attacked - anyone who starts with mongolia and doesnt' start a war asap? Maybe he was screwed on horses? Still very dangerous when he gets knights, though. Commodore may have screwed up attacking him.

Twinkletoes - I think he's played a great game. If he was a player with a stronger rep, I might see him as winning this game - he's in a good position, with a strong leader and just entering the time his civ does well. It's hard to see him beating Commodore and I'm not quite sure why he hasn't opportunistically wiped out Azza - maybe that's coming, I dunno.

us - I dunno - survived an attack, got some luck. Woefully under-infrastructured, partly because of the number of workboats we had to make. That said, we have a lot of commerce coming from food tiles now, so that's pretty good. I honestly can't tell how well we are doing - our manufacturing base is not really strong.

[AutomatedTeller]

Took a peek - Jowy has an LB in Rannoch, which is toast - either TT or I will take that.

He has a trireme in Noveria, so I need to get a caravel in the water. he probably needs 2 to kill my trireme (10% defensive bonus and if he attacks and fails, that just strengthens me), but I'd like to know that I am safe. I guess LA Law is the best place - it needs a 2 pop whip from anywhere else - LA Law maybe has enough overflow to make it a one pop whip, or at least a 2 pop with a lot of overflow.

More later, after TT plays...

[MindyMcCready]

jowy did not accept peace and didn't counter-offer. He has abandoned Rannoch.

Ridiculous . So he wants to stay at war with us because that'll keep his cities safer. I mean, I don't doubt that's its plain as day that we're trying to get Jowy to defend against TT while we build up for 10T and have an easier crack at him. Still, as a civ defending to the best of their ability you'd pretty much have to take peace when having 2 civs take a stab at you. Its not like 100 gold is exactly harsh terms given that he invaded us. Its also not like he has any real chance at defending against both of us given that he's emptied out at least 2 cities.

Oh well, with whatever minimal little influence Jowy has left on this game he's going to determine that TT gets the cities not us. After all we deserve it because we killed his stack,...in our territory. Its a little like the PB7 game where Seven was pisssed with Xenu. He complained that Xenu was defending only against Seven,....but I don't think that Xenu was offered peace,...

Ok fine. We need to base our plans on no peace.

Option 1: Aggressively contain TT.
So what to do about Rannoch? I think that we need to raze it if we get half a chance. That city's not really worth getting into a showdown with TT at this point. Also, rip up the roads and slow down his progress. And go raze that other city as well along Jowy's North.

That forces TT to send his stack deep into Jowy's land, across jungle. I think that we try to harass him by ripping up roads and slowing down any reinforcements. TT is then forced to march on Eden Prime if he's got the troops or turn back into builder mode and chop jungle.

Then later, if we get half a chance we plant NN or Rannoch. That city shuts down TT expansion in the area. 3 tiles to work to build walls and a castle (still good against Knights/Cats, not so much Muskateers). That becomes our new fortress city whose job is to protect and let the other cities develop.


Option 2: Appeasement of TT
Let him have Rannoch. Let him have the north city. By the will of Jowy we're going to get very little out of this war. Grrr. TT will probably stop there and let us worry about Citadel and Eden Prime while he picks up Ferros and maybe Virmir for a song.

Option 3: Bluff or DOW on TT if he tries for "our" land. Move the army up to Rannoch.
We've got a bigger army than TT so he might back down. Too bad there's not one more forest tile so that we could get a look at those jungle tiles. I think that you're right that he's got to be there at T150 or at Ferros. Ferros I could live without,....him taking Rannoch makes holding any of that land much more difficult.

We could demand the city. If TT has come for Rannoch first then when he moves his stack out to take Ferros we could take a shot at him. We'll have the turns necessary to get our cats up there right? We are exposing our flank to a Jowy counterattack while simultaneously facing off with TT. Could get ugly.

Maybe this is what Jowy is hoping for? Us and TT having a royal shoot out. That would save his bacon. Well if that's the case then tip-of-the-hat to Jowy and I retract my troll comments. That's not actually a bad strategy.

He whipped 6 pop last turn and now has a LB in virmire. The LB he had in citadel has moved out.

Right, so Jowy's finally ready to defend. Just not against TT,...

oh - Jowy now has metal casting, so I'm thinking I should get a caravel in the water, cause he could, conceivably, kill my trireme with 3 triremes, which would be annoying. I'm making a workboat in CHiPs for a 2nd whale, for trading - I'll make a caravel the next turn.

I wouldn't because I don't want to draw attention to the area. As far as Jowy's concerned its just costing him 1 clam. I mean, certainly you can build the Caravel but I wouldn't place it in the area until post attack or concurrently with the attack. Just status quo business as usual in that area,... Jowy's not very likely to challenge our control of the lake while he's emptying out cities,..

Ok - Rannoch:

I'm thinking raze if we get the chance. That makes TT really stretch for cities in the area. If he's stretching that far we'll have a good chance of catching him unprepared. If that city's gone, he's unlikely to take a stab at Eden Prime. Much more likely to march his army West and take Ferros and maybe get in a tiff with Commodore over Virmie. And if he does take a stab at Eden Prime, let him. We build up some more catapults,...cut his roads with W2s and wipe out his stack.

I did a sim and if he plops an LB in there, we'll lose a mace taking it, but we'll take it.

Of course, I think TT has priority - do lurkers agree? He moved first the last two turns - I moved first this one (cause I didn't think about it, really). I THINK he should go first next turn and gets first crack at the city. Do lurkers agree?

Not enough experience with this to really have an opinion. But it'll be more than a little upsetting if we lose Rannoch over 1/2 of a turn. Now does it matter which order we played with TT before? We're playing before Jowy, Jowy's playing after us, maybe TT plays after Jowy? I'm not sure why that wouldn't be just as appropriate and I think that's what others have done in the past.

This is important enough of a decision that we shouldn't give that up without a discussion with TT and or strong concensus from knowledgeable lurkers. I don't want to assume that TT gets the first half, just because and then have him at our doorstep unnecessarily.

[MindyMcCready]

Whip in the galley in LA Law.
Move the galley, pike and GG south on t151.

Move south to staging place on t152. Join up with galley with 2 maces.
On T153 (or any later turn) if Noveria is empty, attach the GG to one of the maces, giving all 5 units 4 xp. Give the galleys flanking and nav I and then boat Noveria.

Noveria will have 2 maces and a pike and will be tough enough to handle anything that can get there until I get 2 LB there.

It ain't Citadel, but it works.

I don't mind that plan. Still I think that if we get a chance to raze Citadel we should do so first. That then makes Jowy defend Eden Prime to the last and makes TT's job a heck of a lot harder.

Not my first choice,...but what can we do if Jowy's mounting a troll defense against us? For all we know he could empty out Eden Prime to retake Citadel if he really wants to spite us.

oh - Commodore took back the city he took and 2Metra took back. 2metra whipped down another 6 pop points - presumably, he's adding a ton of LB.

Awesome. No more easy pickings for Master Commodore.

So, looking at upgrades:

Pikes/maces/croswbows upgrade to either rifles or grenadiers... but LB and Muskets only to rifles? That's something I didn't realize - I guess we want to go to Rifling, then, not Mil science

Not necessarily. If we're going to be boating cities defended by Rifles, then grenadiers are the way to go. Depends if we're on the offensive or not.

[MindyMcCready]

More later, after TT plays...

Are we positive that we need to let this happen?

He has a trireme in Noveria, so I need to get a caravel in the water. he probably needs 2 to kill my trireme (10% defensive bonus and if he attacks and fails, that just strengthens me), but I'd like to know that I am safe. I guess LA Law is the best place - it needs a 2 pop whip from anywhere else - LA Law maybe has enough overflow to make it a one pop whip, or at least a 2 pop with a lot of overflow.

A Trieme in Noveria? Guess I was wrong. Does he think that he can challenge our control of the lake? Has he looked at the map? Does he know about the 10% defense bonus meaning that he's going to need overwhelming numbers not just matching numbers? Has he looked at our tech? More evidence of a troll defense,...or is it more a case of "even the gods contend in vain"?