I'd taken the "I wish I were dead" to be the specifically Marvin-esque portion, and the assumption that I'd take anything you say as a scum tell as general annoyance.
Would still be interested to know why you'd advocate a no-kill night for scum.
-- Don’t forget.
Always, somewhere,
someone is fighting for you.
-- As long as you remember her,
you are not alone.
Lewwyn - if you want some input for your final evaluation, think about how abruptly Gaspar changed his opinion on Bigger. First on day 1, going from guilty to innocent, and then on day 2, going the other way. Think about Serdoa's death and how Gaspar tried to spin that into a case against Uberfish. And think about how easily Bigger went down.
(May 5th, 2013, 09:23)zakalwe Wrote: Well, isn't this immensely cozy! Just the four of us, and one of us is a dirty liar.
(May 5th, 2013, 05:30)Lewwyn Wrote: Zak you're doing a terrible job convincing me I shouldn't vote for you.
Ok? Then maybe you could help me out by explaining why you think I'm suspicious. I presume "he's too happy" is just a joke and not the actual reason. I've tried talking to you on a couple of occasions in this game but for some reason you just ignore me. On day 1, you said I "wasn't helping" with my vote on Mattimeo, and I asked you to clarify that, but you ignored me. Then, on night 2, you yourself said you had been "too quick" to clear Mattimeo, but you still persisted in holding my early Mattimeo vote against me, for some unspecified reason.
This isn't day 1, and there's only one scum left, so a pressure vote makes no sense, as there won't be any interaction tells. There likely won't be any future days where we can look back on this day, anyway. So if you really think I'm scum, you should tell me why, so I can defend myself.
In fact, your whole post looks a lot like you're just positioning yourself for staying on me for the first half of the day, and then switching to Gaspar towards the end. You just establish that you still suspect me, for unspecified reasons, while hinting that you could be persuaded to join me on Gaspar if I redouble my efforts. You also ask Mattimeo for his position, even though Mattimeo isn't a stated suspect of yours.
Also, I'm pretty sure Mattimeo both realized and acknowledged that you started the wagon on Bigger. That doesn't mean you were hoping it would go through on day 2. You knew that I was gunning hard for Gaspar at the time. Besides, the idea of busing your scumbuddy on day 2 or 3 is hardly a new one in 9-player games, as you should be well aware from the recent game that we won together. I still think it's more likely that Gaspar was the one who bused his buddy, because he really had no alternative, but that doesn't mean you're clear.
(May 5th, 2013, 05:22)Gaspar Wrote: Essentially, yes. Given what we know of where each player lives as well as each player's propensity for quick thinking, you're the most likely candidate. I'm hesitant to use that as too big of a tell, though, since 1. it's a little too meta for my tastes and 2. we don't actually know that the scum revoked a kill order even if it is the most likely answer.
Ok, it's an awful argument, as you're at least partly acknowledging, and I really think you should retract it completely. If not, I'm going to dig up all instances of you making a ridiculous fake vote seconds "too late" for the deadline as scum, which I'm sure happened at least twice. More importantly though, why did you assume that the kill order was revoked at the last minute? Why couldn't it be a no kill order all along, as Lewwyn says, and why couldn't the scum have targeted Uberfish after all, like PB and Uberfish speculated? You arbitrarily picked one fairly unlikely explanation for what happened, then added a terrible meta accusation on top of that, and listed it as your second most significant factor against me. So that really looks like you first decided I should be your suspect, and then looked for reasons to suspect me, rather than actually trying to understand the lack of a kill, and arriving at me as the likely explanation.
I fail to see what my too late votes as scum have to do with anything. Interestingly, in neither instance were those intentional fake votes, both times I intended them to be real votes. Actually the most interesting thing to me this game is how badly you and uber misunderstand my game as scum which I guess explains why I keep winning when I roll it.
I don't consider nokill orders because I've never sent one in and I think they're like bunting in baseball - outsmarting yourself to the detriment of winning. In a vacuum, before day 3 the two easiest mislynches were me and uberfish. You kill, say, an uberfish supporter on night 3 and a Gaspar supporter on night 4 and your odds are better. The only reason the lynch sailed through so easily yesterday was because of PBs claim. If that hadn't happened, it would have been you and uberfish on me vs PB and me on uberfish. You steer the lynch depending on who you kill. Of course, once PB made his post revoking the kill order makes a ton of sense because you get not only a mislynch but also a day of pretty much no discussion.
Bottom line - I do not find my explanation unlikely and in fact believe it to be what happened. I might be wrong - I don't know what the scum actually did. But it is consistent with what makes sense to me if I were playing scum. When I look through that prism, I find you the most likely person to do that.
I can very easily see Lewwyn as the second scum. I think his play has been a bit all over. But at the end of the day, I have not much. So basically I look at it and I see that you're the only one left who didn't vote for Bigger in what was a close vote where his opponent was a villager. Lewwyn voted to lynch the scum. Mattimeo, who to me can't be guilty and if he is deserves a medal, basically swung the vote to lynch the scum. I voted to lynch the scum. You voted to lynch a villager.
When I have nothing, that's got to be enough. Not to mention you're just really grating on my nerves at this point, truth be told, so I'd feel a lot better if scum Lewwyn or scum Mattimeo won than scum Zakalwe.
If someone makes a good case for Lewwyn, I'll listen to it. I'd need a smoking gun to vote for Mattimeo at this point. (I, of course, fully expect to be mislynched and have us lose that way, but regardless I'll stick with it.)
I've got some dirt on my shoulder, can you brush it off for me?
(May 5th, 2013, 05:22)Gaspar Wrote: Essentially, yes. Given what we know of where each player lives as well as each player's propensity for quick thinking, you're the most likely candidate. I'm hesitant to use that as too big of a tell, though, since 1. it's a little too meta for my tastes and 2. we don't actually know that the scum revoked a kill order even if it is the most likely answer.
Ok, it's an awful argument, as you're at least partly acknowledging, and I really think you should retract it completely. If not, I'm going to dig up all instances of you making a ridiculous fake vote seconds "too late" for the deadline as scum, which I'm sure happened at least twice.
I fail to see what my too late votes as scum have to do with anything.
If its cut like this, would that help?
At least, what I got from that line was an implication that you also have a history of being around at the deadline, hence you're just as likely to have changed the kill order, by your own reasoning.
(May 5th, 2013, 21:12)Gaspar Wrote: Not sure what you want me to say to that. That post was obviously hubris to the nth degree when I thought we had uber dead to rights.
Here's something I do need an honest opinion on, not just a "I'll say yes so you'll come help lynch Gaspar":
Is he likely to make such a "gg, it's the final day and we're clearly won, town" post as scum? I can defintiely see him doing it as town, or *during LyLo* as scum, but I can't quite match up doing it on what he knows is not the final day.
-- Don’t forget.
Always, somewhere,
someone is fighting for you.
-- As long as you remember her,
you are not alone.
(May 6th, 2013, 00:39)Mattimeo Wrote: Here's something I do need an honest opinion on, not just a "I'll say yes so you'll come help lynch Gaspar":
Is he likely to make such a "gg, it's the final day and we're clearly won, town" post as scum? I can defintiely see him doing it as town, or *during LyLo* as scum, but I can't quite match up doing it on what he knows is not the final day.
The post is way too upbeat. Even after he's won Gaspar isn't that upbeat.
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
(May 5th, 2013, 19:33)Gaspar Wrote: Not to mention you're just really grating on my nerves at this point,
That seems to imply that you think I'm an annoying villager - not that I'm scum.
Yes, Mattimeo, my point was that Gaspar has a history of being active around deadlines, and also that he has a penchant for "manipulating" it, for lack of a better word. In WW7, he faked an internet outage right before the deadline to mislynch me. I don't actually think that's a good argument against him, but if he wants to go down that road, that's where we're heading.
If the scum did a deliberate no kill, I think it's much more likely that it's something he/they did after careful consideration, going through the math and deciding that it's worth the risk. (The risk being that the game drags on for an extra day due to another failed kill.) It's a big decision, and I don't really see anyone doing it on the spur of the moment based on that relatively vague claim from PB. Most likely, Bigger learnt something night 1 with his Hack ability, or the other scum has some investigative power, and they decided already at that point to go for a no kill on night 2. If they knew or had reason to suspect that there were roleblockers/jailers in play, it makes a lot of sense.
(May 6th, 2013, 00:39)Mattimeo Wrote: Here's something I do need an honest opinion on, not just a "I'll say yes so you'll come help lynch Gaspar":
Is he likely to make such a "gg, it's the final day and we're clearly won, town" post as scum? I can defintiely see him doing it as town, or *during LyLo* as scum, but I can't quite match up doing it on what he knows is not the final day.
The post is way too upbeat. Even after he's won Gaspar isn't that upbeat.
That's really not true. At the end of the FFH game and at the end of Noble's game I exhibited high levels of triumphalism in the thread when I thought the game was over.
Anyway, I am definitely on around deadlines frequently. My scheduleis erratic, so I'm not always on around deadlines, but I am frequently. But I know my alignment and I don't know zak's. Honestly, as the day has gone on its just been attitude at this point. Everyone but zak has displayed greater levels of uncertainty as to what is going to happen. Zak's basically acted like he has to convince Matt and Lewwyn. Lewwyn's bounced around between me and Zak. Matt seems very uncertain. But Zak seems like he has this sewn up, when there's no smoking gun. We all (Matt excepted) had that attitude yesterday when we had PB's claim buffeting our votes. There's nothing similar on any of the candidates for lynch today.
I've got some dirt on my shoulder, can you brush it off for me?
