[No Players]PBEM L for the Lurkers

[plako]

Just saying that I didn't do any rigorous balance analysis. Just looked the map for few minutes and based on that send some potential balance issues to Ceil. I'm not even sure, if he took any of those into account. After all this was about using the script and not hand draw everything.

These starts are not equal or at least they weren't when I did see them (again not sure what changes has been made to final version). e.g. even the quality of starting position is varying quite a bit. Some got only 4 food tiles, someone got irrigated corn. Not everyone has gold, silver or gems in capital BFC. Not everyone has acces to reasonable 2 hammer/3food plant...

[plako]

Also not seeing food is also info. It means you're better of being conservative and picking a civ with Agriculture. It is a bit disappointing that none of the starts were by the sea/lake so most of the Fishing civs are not very tempting to pick narrowing down the real options.

[Oxyphenbutazone]

I think it might have been worth it to pave a forest so Thoth could see he had a hunting start, if he goes for an Agr/wheel civ here, he is gonna be at a disadvantage

[Shoot the Moon]

I think telling everyone what starting resources type they have is an acceptable compromise, along hte following lines:

If they have a grain, say that first,
If they have seafood, say that second,
If they have an animal, say that third.

Provided I can repick with hte new information. Otherwise I'd have to say I prefer no additional information rather than a full start reveal (and it's not even reasonable to discuss this now IMO, as we are all biased after being given our starts).

Krill has to realize he's not going to get anymore information with what he just posted, right? Is he being deceptive toward the other players? Or just plain argumentative?

[pindicator]

tbh, i really have no idea what krill is asking for

[Hesmyrr]

Isn't it simpler to retake screenshot of each start to show big fat cross?

[Shoot the Moon]

I do want to say that I'm not particularly happy with revealing the full BFC of the capitals after people have seen the original starting screenshots because that's a straight disadvantage to me and potentially others, but it would have been fine if that is what people had asked for prior to the start reveal. But merely revealing 1 food bonus type in the FoW is reasonable IMO, because everyone will get the same amount of information (even if someone were told that there are no more food resources in the fog, that is relevant information when considering moving the settler).

Posting this here so that Krill doesn't get needlessly pissed off, but his evaluation of what is fair is quite skewed. Yes, everyone gets the same amount of information more than they currently have, but his solution also means he gets more information when he makes his pick than others. He'd have info on two sources of food, whereas three other players in the game only get info on one. In my opinion the fair solution would either be to reveal the full BFC to everyone or to reveal one food resource (ie tell them the type) to everyone that has none revealed. Revealing a further resource to Krill does not solve the issue.

[teleh]

Worth resurrecting for this. Initially had no idea what Krill meant by 'reveal ag resource first, seafood second' by the way he put it ('say that first'). But if what was meant is prioritise the reveals in that order, then that sounds okay (by the ease of getting the worker tech).
HOWEVER, I think it should be the one resource per person. So Krill has his reveal already, namely 'you have a grain. which you can see'.

[pindicator]

I think the least thorny way to proceed is to unfog the BFC for each player

[Shoot the Moon]

I think the least thorny way to proceed is to unfog the BFC for each player

Agreed.