Diplomacy Master Thread- Helping Your Opponents Beat Themselves

[scooter]

Official draft of a response:

Beta,

Thanks for sending that, we took a look and discussed it, and compared it to our own planning.

We would really prefer that we both declare at the same time on T150. Giving them the opportunity to first wipe out one stack, then turn and try to do the same to the other is a very dangerous plan. Forcing them to try to defend both at the same time will stretch them much worse in our opinion. We put a lot of effort and planning into making T150 the exact attack date we agreed on, and I definitely think it's best that we stick with that. We are definitely going to be declaring on T150 either way - we don't want to give the Incan team any more time to get to a dangerous tech like Feudalism.

Is this okay with you to go this route instead?

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

I know a couple people will not like the last "is this okay" question, but you have to understand - he obviously put quite a bit of effort into that word doc (even if the plan is not the greatest), and sharply shooting it down can feel pretty harsh if we aren't careful. I don't want to sound like a jerk.

Thoughts?

[scooter]

The wording is key and very tricky, but I think that's the best route. I don't want to straight up just say, "whatever happens, happens." that seems too blunt and not cooperative.

Just to be clear, I wouldn't actually say that to them - certainly not worded like that. I just used that phrase here internally as it is the most accurate way of describing how we want it to work out.

[darrelljs]

I think its fine except I'd take out the word "instead".

Darrell

[novice]

Or rephrase it to "Is going this route okay with you?".

[zakalwe]

Here's the planned attack route from WPC. I agree with kjn's opinion of this move: it's a terrible tactical advance. WPC spends 3 turns slowly creeping around in strategically useless tundra in order to capture... a small fishing village? Even if they succeed in this mission, they'll inflict very little damage to the Germans, with their army poorly positioned to go after any real targets. It's a dumb plan of attack.

But I would argue the exact opposite conclusion about this dumb attack: a foolish attack from WPC is great news for us! We should absolutely encourage them to send their army off into the wilderness and achieve nothing of note, while we happily capture everything of strategic value.

Considering this plan of attack was tied to a 50/50 land split, I think it's quite possible that they're not actually all that dumb. They could simply be planning to stay out of harm's way while we do the heavy lifting. So I also disagree with the conclusion that we should encourage them to move their army towards an insignificant flank. That just means it will be ignored by the Germans, who will focus on repelling our attack, instead. We want WPC to push their army right into the German core, forcing a bloodbath as soon as possible.

[Sullla]

Then let them sit up there on their hands while we take all the cities. I'm totally fine with that. Are we supposed to be afraid of an army of axes and chariots when we have an army of maces and knights?

[kalin]

Scooter, I like your message.

Kalin

[Brian Shanahan]

Official draft of a response:

Beta,

Thanks for sending that, we took a look and discussed it, and compared it to our own planning.

We would really prefer that we both declare at the same time on T150. Giving them the opportunity to first wipe out one stack, then turn and try to do the same to the other is a very dangerous plan. Forcing them to try to defend both at the same time will stretch them much worse in our opinion. We put a lot of effort and planning into making T150 the exact attack date we agreed on, and I definitely think it's best that we stick with that. We are definitely going to be declaring on T150 either way - we don't want to give the Incan team any more time to get to a dangerous tech like Feudalism.

Is this okay with you to go this route instead?

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

I know a couple people will not like the last "is this okay" question, but you have to understand - he obviously put quite a bit of effort into that word doc (even if the plan is not the greatest), and sharply shooting it down can feel pretty harsh if we aren't careful. I don't want to sound like a jerk.

Thoughts?

If you are going to ask the question of assent, then I'd change the last sentence of the second paragraph; to something like "we don't want Inca to get a chance to tech to something dangerous like Feudalism, therefore we would have a strong preference to attack ourselves at t150". We can strongly argue for a joint-dec without giving too much away here if you're worried about selling this option to WPC.

Saying that we'll definitely declare and then asking "is it ok?" would feel disingenious, to me at least. Push our side strongly by all means, but I think it is a bad idea to say we'll do x and then ask if doing x is ok. Gives the wrong vibe.

[Fintourist]

Personally I would consider also this option:

We help WPC by attacking one turn earlier (T150 vs T151) while:

• I doubt that they manage to do a similar sneak attack as we are planning on T150. It's better for us that Germans start whipping one turn later.
  
• Browny points for land split negotiations (50/50 is most definitely not an option)
  

However, if people believe that this one turn difference will cause significantly more resistance from Germans or negative reactions from other teams, then let's go ahead with simultaneous attack. I just think that every negotiation item that helps us to leave the land split unaddressed or favorably defined is valuable. We want to see a motivated attack from WPC, but preferably avoid destroying our relationship totally.

[kjn]

Chill, all. I wasn't proposing that we declare first - it was there mainly to show that their plan of us delaying our declaration of war would be the weakest option.

I think we should do some hints that their idea of the flanking movement is bad. I want them to feel that we give them good advice and have their interests in mind (even if we don't), and I want them tie down and kill a many German units as possible. Splitting their stack and doing that flanking move won't help at all. I also agree that the ending sounds weak.

How about:

Beta,

Thanks for sending that, we took a look and discussed it, and compared it to our own planning.

We would really prefer that we both declare at the same time on T150. Giving them the opportunity to first wipe out one stack, then turn and try to do the same to the other is a very dangerous plan. The Incan team has interior lines, so we risk defeat in detail. Forcing them to try to defend both at the same time will stretch them much worse in our opinion. We put a lot of effort and planning into making T150 the exact attack date we agreed on, and I definitely think it's best that we stick with that. We are definitely going to be declaring on T150 either way - we don't want to give the Incan team any more time to get to a dangerous tech like Feudalism, and as little time to prepare to our attack as possible.

So we are committed to declare war on the Incan team on T150, and we hope that you can join us then.