Diplomacy Master Thread- Helping Your Opponents Beat Themselves

[kjn]

Given that CFC has been quite aggressive in their interactions with us for quite a while, and now blew off our proposals for a prolonged NAP, I think it is high time to push back actively.

So yes, if they start to complain, we can say that we think they have been acting in an unfriendly manner for a long time, and when they refused to prolong our NAP we had to question their long-term motives.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

Given that CFC has been quite aggressive in their interactions with us for quite a while, and now blew off our proposals for a prolonged NAP, I think it is high time to push back actively.

So yes, if they start to complain, we can say that we think they have been acting in an unfriendly manner for a long time, and when they refused to prolong our NAP we had to question their long-term motives.

Even that is too nice, to be honest. The writing is on the wall and plain for all to see. We're at war already, the firing just hasn't started yet. If they complain, tell them it's their fault and if they want to retain our cooperation in this game they had best hurry to make amends, starting with a NAP extension. Failing that, we have nothing further to say. At that point, withdraw stone and spices. With all the whips and drafts they've done and are doing, they'll feel the happy pinch immediately.

Note: I do not care if they interpret this as a violation of our agreement. All the NAP is good for now is providing them a date to coordinate their offensive against us with whatever allies they can cobble together. As soon as we feel we have a numerical advantage on our shared border, cancel our active trades.

[kjn]

I'm not sure we can go as far as cancelling our deliveries - I'd prefer to stand within the letter of our agreement so far. This eg means that we will have to ask if they want silver from us later on, if we manage to claim all the sources to our south (of course, we will ask for 2gpt per city of theirs...).

Diplo opportunities and ideas right now:

Trade spices for sugar with CivPlayers. Might be a good way to get a closer relationship there, and a longer NAP.

Maybe offer stone to the Spanish team as well? It won't help their war elephants, but well-promoted impis in a city can still be a tough nut to crack with only knights (and I think we can be sure that they have a lot of impis), slowing down the CFC offensive and meaning they have a better chance of getting worthwhile numbers of elephants. Walls also help against collateral damage.

Remember that CFC doesn't have that many barracks and no stables, so their knights will be mainly promotion-less, and 2 impis will beat 1 knight at a lower hammer cost.

A new map trade with the Spanish team. Or we buy their map for some gold so they can get HBR quicker.

Offer some missionaries to Univers. They have 3 hindu cities (and a monastery) right now, so our religion already has a head start there. If we can get another OB and a decent treaty with a large team, that'd be huge once CFC starts to move against us.

Ask WPC if they have any idea of the German techs. I doubt they have research visibility on them, though.

Scooter - with the diplo intensity right now, do you want to take a break or get a loyal lieutenant?

[Lord Parkin]

From WePlayCiv:

Hi Scooter. Sorry for my tardy reply. Been a bit busy lately.

Let me address your earlier message. We agree with your 'principles' regarding the war. You have our sincere commitment that we will not be 'dogging' it, so to speak, even though we have a plethora of dog soldiers.

Let's be honest, we have a near to last place economy, and the 2nd or 3rd largest army. The two are not unrelated.

We are going to be attacking aggressively, and have a large stockpile of catapults to lead the assault. You can be confident that we will be a worthy partner in this war.

As to the NAP with CFC, Tatu has confirmed it.

And declaring on turn 150 after the German Team plays is fine by us. My only concern is that they often play very late in the turn, but that should not be a problem.

An early question on strategy related to the DOW. There is no way we can hide our intentions on turn 149, or even 148 for one route of attack, and declare war on turn 150 and enter their territory. So, is it your intent to actually cross into their territory on turn 150 or just declare? In some respects, this is a bit like my earlier question of one team attacking first.

I would prefer to be crossing into their territory on turn 150, giving them that much less time to start slaving and preparing. Thoughts?


Cheers! Beta

[Sisu]

Huh. That... went better than I expected. Wonder if they can actually back up those proud words with action.

The most recent C&D power graph doesn't show WPC, but weren't they a relatively distant fourth as of a turn or two ago?

[scooter]

Sent to GWT:

GWT,

First, we are also grateful for your team's fair treatment of us through diplomacy. We appreciate that very much!

However, we're actually expecting someone to attack us on T175, so we're pretty suspicious of any NAPs ending on that date. Is there any reason you picked that date, and/or do you know anything about plans to attack us on T175?

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

[scooter]

Trade spices for sugar with CivPlayers. Might be a good way to get a closer relationship there, and a longer NAP.

This is a good idea. We're going to hit some WW here pretty soon, so it's also best we pile up some extra happies. This'll give us another excuse to check in on the NAP. I just noticed the last drafted response to CivPlayers hadn't gotten sent, so I sent this:

OT4E,

Oh, we have the same understanding as you for the NAP. I just figure the cooldown period is a "last chance" period for NAP extensions, and I'm not a big fan of procrastinating . However you are definitely correct - this is not really urgent right now. I sent that in advance for exactly that reason - I'd rather you be able to think it through and decide what's best for your team than have to wait until it IS urgent and have to rush. Hopefully that makes sense.

Anyway, I will wait for your response whenever you're ready. If you'd like to chat with me sometime, just add me atrealmsbeyondscooter@gmail.com, and I'd be happy to talk directly whenever!

Oh, one more thing. Are you guys interested in trading us sugar for spices?

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

Maybe offer stone to the Spanish team as well? It won't help their war elephants, but well-promoted impis in a city can still be a tough nut to crack with only knights (and I think we can be sure that they have a lot of impis), slowing down the CFC offensive and meaning they have a better chance of getting worthwhile numbers of elephants. Walls also help against collateral damage.

I'd like more thoughts from the team on if this is worthwhile. I'm a little skeptical.

Offer some missionaries to Univers. They have 3 hindu cities (and a monastery) right now, so our religion already has a head start there. If we can get another OB and a decent treaty with a large team, that'd be huge once CFC starts to move against us.

Are we in a position where we can afford to divert hammers to missionaries? Serious question, not arguing.

Scooter - with the diplo intensity right now, do you want to take a break or get a loyal lieutenant?

I'm actually enjoying this. The only tricky thing is keeping track of which drafts (and which have been sent) since the discussion is moving so fast. I'm not sure if there's a simple way to make it easier to track.

[kjn]

Good to hear that, Scooter.

I think we can tell WPC that the Germans are starting to become paranoid in their dealings with us, and that most of their units has moved away from Wilhelmshaven, though we don't know exactly where. Thus, on T150 it is quite possible that we will have to deal with the main German stack.

As for my ideas - well, I like to come up with ideas and look for opportunities. I know some of them won't be practical, and that we can't follow up on everyone, but I think it's good to have them out in the open where they can be discussed.

[scooter]

I think we can tell WPC that the Germans are starting to become paranoid in their dealings with us, and that most of their units has moved away from Wilhelmshaven, though we don't know exactly where. Thus, on T150 it is quite possible that we will have to deal with the main German stack.

Yeah I started a draft response to them, but I wanted to consult Sullla's war plans post first, and the dropbox images aren't loading for whatever reason. Hoping that corrects itself soon.

As for my ideas - well, I like to come up with ideas and look for opportunities. I know some of them won't be practical, and that we can't follow up on everyone, but I think it's good to have them out in the open where they can be discussed.

Oh right, I'm not shooting them down, I'm trying to direct discussion towards those things since they're not really ready for me to send to someone.

[scooter]

Draft to WPC:

Beta,

Great, glad to hear we're on the same page for the upcoming war! We've seen a lot of axes in the Incan land, so I imagine those Dog Soldiers should be pretty effective!

Yes, we definitely plan on crossing into their territory on T150 with the vast majority of our army. We should then be able to take a city of theirs on T151 barring any surprises, and we're hoping to be attacking a second city on T153. There's also another small pesky border city out west that we will likely raze right away on T150. So don't worry, they'll definitely notice our presence . I'm assuming your team will be doing the same by moving in on T150?

Also, we've got a unit or two floating around in their territory, and they seem to be shuffling a lot of unit towards us. Not surprising, but it's good news for your team. Have they contacted you recently about NAPs or anything?

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

Comments?

Also, if/when anyone on the team is able to compile a screenshot + positions of the German military, I can definitely send that to WPC. Yes we want most of these cities, but we should still make every effort to help them IMO. Having a vassal + safe border as the game progresses is really valuable.