The German War

[kalin]

If they don't defend the city, then those units are on a road an the german culture will be gone so the stack should be able to move W-NW on to the pigs right? They'll be protected by the river and can then move to the FP the next turn then attack.I'm not sure splitting the army is going to be an option if they don't suicide their stack into the city next turn.

That's exactly what I also had in mind.
Kalin

[novice]

Do we have enough two-movers sw of Wassenburg that we can peel them off to the hill N-NE of wassenburg on t151 and take Wismar on t152? Since feudalism is presumably just around the corner this might be good. With engineering eot151 we should also be able to garrison Wismar with 1-movers on t152.

[kjn]

Wismar was the city that isn't on the list of assigned cities

RB: Wolfrathausen, Worms, Wassenburg, Weil der Stadt, Wanzleben, Webringen
WPC: Westheim, Wesselburn, Warendorf, Wien, Wittenbirge, Wilhelmshaven

They proposed razing it and founding it further south. So yes, I think razing it T152 would be OK from a diplomatic viewpoint.

Last we checked, the Germans had 2 axes and 1 spear in Wismar. We should probably ask WPC if they can see the German forces in the west. We can do it as we send over a message detailing what we've done so far this turn.

We have 3 WCs and 3 knights SW of Wasserburg that can hit Wismar T152 if we follow that plan.

However, I think we should skip that attack, and go for taking "our" cities as quickly as possible. I think Wien is more valuable to us than Wismar, so if we grab the Wien spot, we can cede Wismar to WPC. And we don't have that many 2-movers.

[kjn]

Another thing: when I logged in CivPlayers had moved up 2 horse archers towards the Wolfratshausen area (so they have 2 HA and an W2 axe there). That's way more than is needed to just observe the action. Keeping a strong presence in the west is IMO mandatory, and we should warn them off trying to snipe the area from us.

[Ruff_Hi]

Do we have enough two-movers sw of Wassenburg that we can peel them off to the hill N-NE of wassenburg on t151 and take Wismar on t152?

Those hills are a good barrier for us. They aren't roaded and the Germans cannot come at us over those hills. As such, I would ignore Wismar for the time being. Mounted units are too valuable for us - we need them to take the core cities.

[Ruff_Hi]

So - after taking the city ... are we planning on moving to the grass hill (1NW of our stack) or to the pigs (1W of the grassland hill).

I think it depends how many units we use taking the city. It might be a good idea to put our sentry chariot on the grassland hill (with cover).

[kjn]

So - after taking the city ... are we planning on moving to the grass hill (1NW of our stack) or to the pigs (1W of the grassland hill).

I think it depends how many units we use taking the city. It might be a good idea to put our sentry chariot on the grassland hill (with cover).

Good questions, but we have several variables we need to consider:

How does the main German stack move?
Do they have any minor stacks near Wasserburg?

We also need to consider culture. Webringen is up to fourth-ring borders, but both Worms and Wismar are at third ring still. This means that if we take Wasserburg the tiles 1W, 1N, and 1NW of the city now will be neutral territory - theoretically we could move our sentry chariot to the plains hill 3E of Worms, and see everything between Webringen and Worms, though I'd prefer to keep it closer to our main stack.

So, I can see four possible and plausible scenarios for the Germans:

Main stack in Wasserburg - then we destroy it

Main stack 1NW of Wasserburg - arguably the best case for us. Take Wasserburg, knights and WCs cross the river (covered with a few maces), kills top defenders. Then use maces from Wasserburg to clean out the stack.

Main stack 2NW of Wasserburg (not visible when we log in). Hit it with 2-movers (flank attack will murder their catapults), cover them with main army.

Main stack further north/west. Take Wasserburg, move sentry chariot into city to gather intel, then move to pig tile with main army.

We have reinforcements coming northwards, and they can be diverted either towards holding Wasserburg against a counterattack or to catch up with the main stack, so I think we only need a skeleton garrison there (2 or 3 maces and possibly an elephant, plus units in need of healing).

[scooter]

Any chance we can get a pre-turn tactical screenshot or two in here so we can discuss the turn ahead of time?

[Sullla]

Posted in the main turn discussion thread.

[kjn]

I very much agree that we will need to go for speed first right now. I'm currently working on my C&D report, and I think the Germans already have 4 war elephants, and have whipped out another four this turn. If we are lucky, WPC will deny one of them to the Germans this turn (by taking Warendorf), but if there is one thing the Germans have shown in this game, it is that they know how to whip.

We should also pillage the cottage 1W of Wasserburg ASAP - Tree Huggers will be at fourth-ring borders on T153.

What I believe the Germans are doing is that they are keeping their army concentrated and so they can get a number of war elephants in their stack. The purpose is to force us to stay concentrated (so we can't pick off their cities quickly with multiple stacks, like CFC do to the poor Spanish), and also to do a strong counter-attack. I'm not sure if they plan to do so before we hit Worms (probably when we are 1S of Worms) or after we've taken Worms (and have our units spread over two tiles).

Given the war elephants, I think we may re-consider hitting Wismar quickly with knights and WCs on T152. If the city is lightly defended (we can ask WPC about that), then razing the city quickly can be a worthwhile goal. That gives us the flexibility to cede the location to WPC, if we judge the diplomatic situation warrants it.