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Realms Beyond Forum     Gaming     Civ Game Reporting     Completed Games     Completed Fall From Heaven / EitB     Erebus in the Balance PBEM XXIX     HidingKneel horses around with Rhoanna [HAR! I mean, SPOILERS!]

 
HidingKneel horses around with Rhoanna [HAR! I mean, SPOILERS!]

#1
June 16th, 2013, 10:16 (This post was last modified: June 16th, 2013, 11:51 by HidingKneel.)
HidingKneel Offline
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[Insert horse-related pun here.]
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#2
June 16th, 2013, 13:49 (This post was last modified: June 16th, 2013, 13:50 by HidingKneel.)
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The opposition:

Brian Shanahan playing Averax of the Sheaim. Averax was my third choice. Agg/Cre/Bar. A Sheaim leader who can specialize in pyre zombie rushing, or take advantage of the Barb trait to go for an armageddon strategy. Not sure what Brian's plan is, or if Brian even has a plan (he says he chose the leader randomly). Anyway, dangerous because of the pyre zombie rush. But by the time he has zombies, we'll have horsemen who can run circles around them. Mobility is a good counter to splash damage.

DaveV playing Furia of the Balseraphs. Furia was on three separate lists, which I don't understand at all. Aside from the ability to use Loki to snatch barbarian cities, where's the synergy? Raiders doesn't help until the late game, and Cha is more a war trait than an economic one. Likely I'm missing something that I'm going to learn the hard way lol.

Tholal playing Mahala of the Doviello. Mahala got a bit of love in EitB: she's now Rai/Exp/Ing. So you can play her as Amelia did in XXIII, as a builder. Or go thematic and rush someone with Lucian. From what I've read of Tholal's games, he likes to play to theme. Don't think that'll work too well in this case, with a big map. In any case, we're a terrible choice of target for a Lucian rush, since our worldspell can give us multiple Lucians of our own.

Ellimist playing as Auric Ulvin of the Illians. Increased happy cap from Cha and enchantment mana will probably give him an early economic edge. Dangerous in the early midgame due to Priests of Winter, and in the endgame due to Arcane-boosted mages with ice mana. Quite possibly he can get those priests out before we have a cavalry to counter them. But again: big map, Hippus worldspell is a deterrent, etcetera etcetera. And his priests will be slow (until he takes the time to research HBR himself). I'll worry about him a lot of he's nearby, not so much if he's far away.

As far as players are concerned: I don't know much about Brian (has he played in any of these games since VII?)
DaveV and Tholal know the game inside and out, but haven't yet managed to translate their expertise into MP victories.
Ellimist is a different story: won his first MP game with Charadon (!), trounced me once already in XX and is in the process of doing so again in XXV.

Of note: with the exception of Furia, every leader in this game is a good rush leader (maybe Furia too... I have no idea how you're supposed to play as Furia). Something to watch out for, especially since mounted units are great on offense but mediocre on defense. Well, they say that the best defense is a good offense. But in this game, I say that the best defense is diplomacy. I think the best strategy is to play the Hippus to theme: we're mercenaries who offer our services to help #2 take down #1.
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#3
June 16th, 2013, 14:48
Merovech Offline
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Man, do you ever play male leaders?

In all seriousness, I am a huge fan of Rhoanna.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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#4
June 16th, 2013, 14:57
HidingKneel Offline
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On occasion! (Cardith, Perpentach, Arty)

Any interest in dedlurking, Merovech?
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#5
June 16th, 2013, 22:16
Merovech Offline
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Sure!
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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#6
June 17th, 2013, 09:57
HidingKneel Offline
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Excellent jive.

So, my first question for the guy who wrote this:

(June 15th, 2013, 20:52)Merovech Wrote: Furia is very, very fun.

What sort of gameplan do you think we might expect out of DaveV?
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#7
June 17th, 2013, 10:24 (This post was last modified: June 17th, 2013, 10:25 by Merovech.)
Merovech Offline
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For starters, with Raiders, the Balseraphs will be even more mobile then they are under Perpantarch, not just in the recon line, but in the other lines as well. Furia might even be more mobile than Rhoanna, ignoring the worldspell. Charismatic means that all of their troops are a little more powerful than they otherwise would be, and Barbarian means Loki can easily steal barbarian cities, plus an easier farmer's gambit. Barbarian's tech penalty is pretty big, though, since the Balseraphs want techs in lots of different trees. The Balseraphs worldspell and Agriculture starting tech will help a little, but I don't expect to see him as the tech leader. If DaveV can stay more or less focused on one line and use his incredible mobility, he'll be a pain to fight, but if he falls behind in tech and can't keep you tied up in the field, all of his mobility won't help him defend his cities.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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Reply

#8
June 17th, 2013, 10:26 (This post was last modified: June 17th, 2013, 10:27 by Merovech.)
Merovech Offline
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I expect a lot of aggression out of DaveV, at least of the skirmishing variety. He'll be hard-pressed to win peacefully.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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Reply

#9
June 18th, 2013, 05:46
HidingKneel Offline
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(June 17th, 2013, 10:26)Merovech Wrote: I expect a lot of aggression out of DaveV, at least of the skirmishing variety. He'll be hard-pressed to win peacefully.

Sounds like that's going to be a theme this game. But I think our horselords trait ought to let us keep up with him. And the barbarian trait will hopefully slow him down enough that we can unleash our mobility on him first, at least if he happens to be a neighbor.
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#10
June 19th, 2013, 19:43 (This post was last modified: June 19th, 2013, 23:23 by HidingKneel.)
HidingKneel Offline
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So much for the bad guys. What about us?

Rhoanna of the Hippus

My first RB experience, which was dedlurking Commodore's Rhoanna in the Capture the Flag game. Commodore was rocking that game. So, when in doubt, I just need to ask myself the magic question: "WWCD?"

The Hippus are the horse-themed civ. Which means:

1) All our mounted units start with the Horselord trait, giving them +1 Movement and +10% withdrawal. Since outmanuevering your opponents is the key to multiplayer warfare, the extra point of movement is amazing. It's also great for pillaging (though that's more the bailiwick of Tasunke, whose Raider trait lets him move over enemy roads and get extra gold from the pillaging). The 10% withdrawal is nothing to sneeze at either: if you start with a horseman, give it three flanking promotions, and then promote it to a horse archer, it can have 95% withdrawal (exceeding the usual cap).

2) We start with Air and Nature mana, and the horse resource. The third is great in a SP game, where the mapscript can't be counted on to ensure that everyone has essential strategic resources. Here, probably not so important. The mana are basically useless (Air II is pretty good, but we're unlikely to build mages).

3) We can't build arquebusiers or cannons. Well, I've never built those with any of the other civs either, so no great loss.

4) We can't build alchemy labs. So we have even less incentive to research Sorcery.

5) If we build Guild of the Nine, we can hire mounted mercenaries. 3-Move, 5-Strength mounted units who can use metal weapons, get 20% withdrawal, and (IIRC) they get defensive bonuses. And don't cause war weariness when they die. Much better on defense than chariots, but they don't come cheap: the wonder is 500 hammers normal speed, and the mercenaries themselves cost quite a bit. However, you can put together a very strong military in a hurry if you can afford it.

6) Our hero is Magnadine, available at Warhorses. Essentially a knight with better withdrawal rate (base 50%), more defensive strength, who starts with Commando and the Hero promotion. Has the ability to hire mercenaries himself, and IIRC he also converts any barbarians that he defeats (but when are there ever barbarians left that late in the game?) A nifty unit, but not a gamechanger. Besides, the game will probably be over before we get there.

7) We start with agriculture, to get our snowball started immediately.

8) Our worldspell, Warcry, gives all units +1 Strength, +1 Movement, and the ability to blitz, with a 5% chance of wearing off each turn. It's like having a "win one war for free" card, as long as you aren't totally outmatched to begin with. Moreover, it lasts long enough (especially at quick speed) to help you out with your next war, too. Arguably the best worldspell there is (especially with Stasis banned), though the Balseraphs have a pretty good one, too.

That's the civ. On to the leader: Rhoanna is Exp/Fin. In base FFH, I'd argue she's the strongest leader after Flauros (at least if we ignore crazy Keelyn-abuse). Sareln hit Fin pretty hard with the nerf bat, but I think it's still a pretty decent trait.
Markets are one of the buildings that you eventually want to put in almost every city, so that's a great building to be able to build for half-price. On a big map, expenses will eventually run high: especially for an expansive leader like Rhoanna. If expenses would ordinarily force you to set your science slider at 50%, Fin lets you set the science slider at 60% instead: that's a +20% boost to your research rate! Of course, that doesn't kick in until late in the game.

So, how do we measure up against the competition? Very well, I'd say. In fact, I'd say the Rhoanna is quite a bit stronger than any of the other picks. First off, we're the only leader with two economic traits. And we asked for a big map, with lots of distance between the civs. So this will start off as a builder's game. If it stays one for long enough, we win.

But there are a lot of rush civs in play. The Illians have Priests of Winter. The Doviello have Lucian. The Sheaim have aggressive pyre zombies. But really, the Hippus are the best rush civ of them all, thanks to their worldspell (at least with Stasis out of the picture). Our worldspell is a pretty strong disincentive to us being a rush target, much like Sanctuary (except it lets us punish invaders, rather than just keep them out) and March of the Trees (except it's available immediately and won't kill our economy). Unlike those spells, though, we can't neglect our military: it only helps us if we have some good troops already. But as long as we aren't running a farmer's gambit, I think it ought to keep us safe for a long time.

Of course, we don't have to play defense. Warcry gives us an awesome early-game offense. If we start near someone, we could try to use it to gain a decisive advantage, quickly absorb them, and take the lead. On a big map, that sounds like a less-than-optimal strategy. I'm guessing we're not going to do much conquering, at least early on. But once we have horsemen on the board, it'd be poor play to let them sit idle. Raiding and pillaging should be the order of the day.

I'd say the biggest danger in this game is from diplomacy. I'm probably not the only one who thinks Rhoanna is the strongest leader on the board. And if we do manage to start outgrowing everyone with our expansive trait, it'll make us a huge target. I think it'll be key to befriend at least one of our neighbors before we start pillaging the others.
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