RB Pitboss #1 [SPOILERS] - Louis XIV of Byzantium

[Kodii]

3Some Chat (We could use a new name too...)

mh: Hi,
mh: just a quick update from my chat with shady in game.
mh: He has relayed our message Krill about crossing The Lins territory. So Krill should hang around in their north for meet up.
mh: Shady has trade routes with dsplaisted but not with us at the moment. I think Daniel is missing the odd road (east fo ChironBetaPrime).
Kodii: alright
mh: Krills ETA for Math is T85, which I think we could match as well. Not entirely sure whether there are advantages to let him do Math? I think we want to research it ourselves, just in case Krill does something funny (like getting invaded by sunrise?).
Kodii: yea, is there anything else he can research? maybe he can be the one to save up the cash
shadyforce from x.x.x.63 joined the chat 76 minutes ago
Kodii: Hi Brian
shadyforce: hi dudes
mh: Hi Brian.
shadyforce: 'ChironBetaPrime'?
shadyforce: whose is that?
Kodii: Daniel's
mh: That's Daniels 3rd city at our border.
mh: Congratulations on meeting everybody. Broker has done so as well.
shadyforce: Krill would rather not research math himself, but oferred in case he was getting it quickest... maths is a critical bottleneck
shadyforce: but I was first, woohoo!
Kodii: We can do it
shadyforce: small victories...
mh: Ok, I think we want to do it.
Kodii: we're almost there!
mh: We might be able to meet his ETA
Kodii: Should meet Krill and regoarrarr in the next few turns, and sunrise is next to the Lins
mh: Unless The Lins territory stretches a lot north-soputh. we are at his southern perimeter, while Krill is north.
shadyforce: ZPV's score and power jumped last turn... his power went up by ~10k
shadyforce: might be 11k
shadyforce: I would think HBr if it were not for him telling someone (can't remember who) that he was going for MC
mh: Brian, what are your thoughts on deepening our allaince with a Defense Pact. It might be not much at the moment, but announncing it openly might deter some people?
shadyforce: as in, if one gets invaded, others help?
Kodii: Do you think the rest of the anti-UTA would be okay with being outside of the DP?
mh: Yes.
shadyforce: I like the idea, yes
mh: Yes to Brians question. Depends to Kodiis question.
shadyforce: there is always a problem of people declaring war but not doing anything
mh: I have mixed feelings with DPing Ruff. If he is wildly roleplaying, he could land us in deep s***
Kodii: He's declaring war left right and centre
mh: Also, I would like to talk to Krill directly and get some feeling about his situation before DPing him?
shadyforce: tbh, there are only 2 people likely to get attacked by UTA, nd that's Krill and myself
shadyforce: Krill is going to get attacked... it's inevitable
mh: Who do you border from the UTA and by how much distance?
Kodii: I don't know if I want to DP Krill, especially since he already has picked up hostilities with sunrise and the Lins
shadyforce: me? regoarrarr, very close and ZPV, close-ish
mh: Do you have info about their power graph?
shadyforce: yes
shadyforce: rego is spiking.... I think he's on barracks and units... and ZPV is not but just got a big power jump to coincide with a score increase, so it looks like a military tech
mh: Well, we will know more once you get Alphabet.
mh: Do you have OB with reg?
Kodii: MC would give him a big power boost as well, but I don't think he'd finish it so fast
shadyforce: MC is 4k... HBR and Iron Working are 10k each
shadyforce: his increase was 10 or 11k
Kodii: Probably HBR for his UU
shadyforce: I like the idea of propping up Krill because he's a great thorn in the side of Sunrise and Lin... so even if we don't DP with him, I like the idea of keeping him teched well enough to defend himself
shadyforce: he is no threat to the rest of us because without us, he's flying solo in between 2 5-civ teams
mh: Yes, I agree. A 6way tech alliance is better than 5way obvisously. Even if we mess up the Oracle we would all not all too far behind.
shadyforce: I feel vulnerable but maybe Imhotep will help me out?
shadyforce: he keeps talking about those impi... I guess he's eager to use them for something
mh: How far do we want to root ourThreesome alliance?
shadyforce: sorry, don't understand the q
mh: We are part of the anti UTA (need a better name). We have a DP. How far do we want the tech cooperation to go. There are different levels, I guess. Gifting techs the moment they are researched, with no IOUs? We would be happy with that.
shadyforce: I have no problem with that either
shadyforce: it's more efficient, sticking to fair deals and IOUs is a bit too strict
mh: Ok. *hand shake*. That is good news. I hope both of us live long and prosper. I will give you a list of our techs. If you could do likewise, we know what each one can get after you have Alphabet. If we could get Daniel to agree as well, I think we form a nice little power block.
shadyforce: I don't feel any threat from you guys since it doesn't make sense for you to do anything to me so it's easy enough to trust
shadyforce: having said that... perhaps we should be more careful about when we give techs... make things at least look like they are trades to disguise the alliance as much as possible
Kodii: If you're wondering where I am, I'm just trying to find a cunning name for the anti-UTA
shadyforce: hehe
shadyforce: do you guys know why ruff declared on ZPV?
mh: Well, Kodii and me decided to play a builders game at the start. Finding ourselves so close next to aggressive Preatorians was abit of shock.
Kodii: His workers presumably
shadyforce: but they are miles away from each other
Kodii: He said this in that massive anti-UTA email thing
Kodii: "I also have a scouting warrior over near ZPV and he has 3 unprotected workers roading - I could knock 1 or 2 of them off too - what do you think?"
shadyforce: oh wait... I do remember something in one of the emails...
Kodii: is T78 your earliest ETA for alpha?
Kodii: I'm just wondering the possibility of grabbing Currency
shadyforce: that's good, maybe it'll slow down those numids coming
mh: Here is what we can gift to you when you have Alphabet: Fishing, The Wheel, Hunting, Myst, Mining, Pottery, AH, Meditation, Masonry, Priesthood, BW, Writing. ... There is bound to be something in there for you. Presuimably the religious stuff. Do you have acces to a religion already? I think we definatly want to spreadConfuz to you and Daniel at least , should our Oracle plan work out.
shadyforce: I could do it in T77 but I actually have a barb threat on my capital... I needed to slow it down to fast-build a spear... atm Alpha is due on T79 though I may still get it out on T78 without too much hassle
shadyforce: so I think better just grab CoL?
Kodii: Too bad we couldn't offer our Great Wall
Kodii: Yea, that's the best plan
shadyforce: I only need the religious techs
mh: I would be uncomfortable with delaying The Oracle for only one turn.
Kodii: We can get Sailing off you IIRC
shadyforce: def don't delay oracle
mh: Yes CoL.Although we might still going to lose it.
Kodii: Agriculture?
shadyforce: I have everything except the religious techs
dsplaisted from x.x.x.203 joined the chat 49 minutes ago
shadyforce: yes, Sailing and Aggriculture are yours
Kodii: Hi Daniel
mh: Hi Daniel.
shadyforce: hi Daniel
dsplaisted: hello
Kodii: Just to catch you up
Kodii: We're discussing the extent of our "alliance"
Kodii: Are you okay with a defensive pact?
dsplaisted: sure
dsplaisted: but I don't think we should announce it
mh: You don't think it will act as a deterrence?
dsplaisted: I'd prefer to keep our alliance secret for now
Kodii: And also regarding techs, we were discussing trading them between us as soon as they are researched without IOUs
dsplaisted: do you think any of us are in danger of being attacked?
shadyforce: I sort of agree with dsp, secrecy above deterrence for now
Kodii: Brian is concerned I think
Kodii: Ruff would go for us if it wasn't for the anti-UTA
shadyforce: I'm in danger of being attacked
shadyforce: but it would be hard for you guys to help me directly even if I was
mh: Ok. I personally was thinking that there is not much we could do to help each other in the next turns, but others might think twice if they risk being DoWed from two others.
dsplaisted: I think we should try to help you before you get attacked
mh: Yes, I agree, but your attacker might not know that 100%.
dsplaisted: I can trade you skirmishers which will help your defense
shadyforce: how will the 6-way anti-UTA alliance feel when there is a smaller 3-way alliance within it?
mh: Just a question. You two are connected closely by land? Similar to Daniel and us?
Kodii: I don't want to isolate ourselves
dsplaisted: if we are prepared for it, it's actually advantageous to get attacked
shadyforce: skirmishers would be nice... but shipping them over is awkward
dsplaisted: we'd need a galley
dsplaisted: shady and me are not connected closely
shadyforce: are you still thinking of boating ZPV?
dsplaisted: I'd love to, but it won't be anytime soon I don't think
shadyforce: that would probably be the best way to help me if I got 2v1'd
dsplaisted: let me know if you get a glimpse of his defenses though
mh: Ok, hmmm. Daniel, are you planning to settle that Channel city NE of Isnegard? Taht would allow us to reach Brian with ship (in the med future - need to settle a city first)
shadyforce: but yeah, it's a big investment
dsplaisted: yes I am
dsplaisted: that will be settled around turn 85-90 I think
mh: I take it you go for the spot 2N ofthe Horses?
shadyforce: I think I have a flag on that spot that says "city that I build if In want to piss of Mali" or something like that
dsplaisted: do you guys know who circumnavigated?
Kodii: No, but I think it has to be someone who logged in after we did on the circumnavigation turn
shadyforce: regoarrarr
Kodii: That would make sense, I think he was one of the two or three people who finished turn after I did
dsplaisted: I'm not sure when it checks, I thought maybe it was just on the new turn
dsplaisted: reading through the log, ZPV was going to research HBR and then MC
dsplaisted: but he thought he could get MC before my then-ETA of around t88
dsplaisted: so I'd be surprised if he just now finished HBR
dsplaisted: of course he might have researched part of HBR, switched to MC, then switched back
mh: Guys, another question. What about excess resources. I guess we want to give each other first rights on resource trades (even gifting excess ones?). If our dot map goes accodiong to plan we will have a 2nd wine and might get 2 excess Silk.
mh: After Monarchy and Calendar obivously.
shadyforce: I have plenty of ivory, dye, cows and banana
dsplaisted: I need a wine
Kodii: Hmm, I realized I need to check the mail, I'll be back in 5 minutes
dsplaisted: shady "stole" the fish which would have been my food for the city that would have grabbed wine
dsplaisted:
shadyforce: I don't have wine or silk nearby
shadyforce: sorry!!
shadyforce: do you need a spare fish?
dsplaisted: not at the moment
shadyforce: and won't your borders get the wine eventually anyway?
dsplaisted: I'm expansive, health isn't an issue yet
mh: Yes, we also got Ivory at the capital. Brokers capital also has pigs and ivory at the capital. Knowing Sullla, it might could as well be a feature of this map, equipping everyone with Ivory for phants? Can you confirm that from your scouting?
dsplaisted: in like 60 turns I think
dsplaisted: I'm 99% sure everyone has ivory
shadyforce: pretty sure every capital has ivory
dsplaisted: shady: as far as defense goes, I can probably have 2 skirmishers for you around turn 90ish... so if you can build a galley, we can trade (hammers are equal)
mh: Ok. Anyone spotted any gold or silver or gems? with your cheap forges we are interested in that, naturally. Also there seems to be little strategic resources around, we only found one stone, one marble, one copper so far on this map. Plenty of horses though. We figure we have unfogged 1/6th of the land tiles.
dsplaisted: I don't have cheap forges
dsplaisted: I have stone and marble in my territory, and 2 copper
shadyforce: no stone or marble, no copper
shadyforce: I'm told there's a copper up near Imhotep I might consider grabbingat some point
dsplaisted: you just need to go NE of your capital for copper shady
shadyforce: I haven't explored up that way though
dsplaisted: if there's not water blocking you, it's close
mh: *our cheap forges of course.
dsplaisted: oh, hehe, forgot you were ind
shadyforce: are you industious mh?
dsplaisted: feeling better about our oracle chances
shadyforce: is marble hooked up?
dsplaisted: marble is right across the water from ZPV's capital, it's also got 2 food resources, so a very nice site. He might try to grab it, in which case I wouldn't have to boat him to attack
dsplaisted: nope, won't be for a while
mh: Yep, only industrious civ in town, marble hooked up this turn.
dsplaisted: nice
dsplaisted: I'm curious, why did you build the great wall? For spy points?
Kodii: Because we're industrious
shadyforce: I will have an extra sugar as well
mh: Btw, daniel. The Lins scout is asking for direction, He is approaching ChironBetaPrime from your east. Around 12 tiles away.
dsplaisted: no problem
dsplaisted: is it a scout or a warrior?
mh: We have paper thin military and any barbs would screw up our Wonder plans.
mh: scout
dsplaisted: I should probably build a couple skirmishers for you guys then too
mh: But lots of forest tiles and he might detour for unfogging. So it might take a while.
dsplaisted: shady, are you interested in a galley/skirmisher trade?
Kodii: and he has to go around CoT
shadyforce: depends
shadyforce: I'm thinking of rushing regoarrarr and if so, I can't afford the shields into a galley
mh: I think we are going OB with The Lins. He might as well go past CoT and pause in wonder.
shadyforce: a galley is 50 isn't it?
mh: yep 50h 2x skirm
Kodii: sounds like everyone is going for a rush haha
shadyforce: do you need a decision now about it?
dsplaisted: no
dsplaisted: no hurry, I just think it would be pretty helpful to your defense
shadyforce: I could probably whip a galley in The Harbour... I might take you up on that
dsplaisted: probably won't have skirmishers to spare until around turn 85-90, so let me know ahead of time
dsplaisted: so I can plan to have them ready
dsplaisted: mh/Kodii, I'd be willing to do the same trade with you guys a bit later
shadyforce: ok, will do, thanks
dsplaisted: that way I'm putting my hammers into my UU
shadyforce: better than you building galley, me building archers for sure
dsplaisted: yep
shadyforce: since you're lucky enough to have a UU that doesn't cost extra!
dsplaisted: most of them don't, I think
dsplaisted: praets are just so powerful they had to balance it a bit
mh: Good, we would be interested of course. Our UU will take a while. Cataphract.
dsplaisted: do you/will you have a coastal city?
Kodii: It's a good one, but won't be getting it any time soon
shadyforce: Immortals cost extra too
Kodii: We already have one, but not near you
mh: With all those lakes around, it is pain in the neck, but we plan to settle a couple of cities on a water body which is then accessible by Daniels Canal City.
dsplaisted: OK guys, I'm gonna go to work now
shadyforce: ok, see you Daniel
Kodii: bye!
dsplaisted: I guess we still need to work out whether to announce our defensive pact...
dsplaisted: but bye for now
mh: bye
shadyforce: oh, another thing I was thinking (should have mentioned this before Daniel left) is whether it's worth considering ORacling Maths and fast-researching Construction?
mh: Are you all happy with us posting this chat in our forum for the lurkers?
shadyforce: I'm happy, yeah
Kodii: I can color code and post it again
Kodii: The problem with delaying our research of Math is that we don't know whether or not we'll actually land the Oracle
Kodii: So we might end up getting Math even later than first announced
mh: Yep.
Kodii: Our ETA for Math is only about 4-5 turns after we get the Oracle anyways
Kodii: And once we all have Math, someone else will probably research Construction in the next round of techs
mh: Yes with letting our cities grow and maturing some cottages we could get it around T82 I think.
Kodii: The next round likely being Currency, Calendar, Construction
Kodii: maybe even feudalism
Kodii: Aesthetics
shadyforce: ok, if Matns can be got that early then no point
mh: OK, this has been a very fruitfull chat. Is there anything else we need to discuss, right now?
Kodii: Nothing I can think of
Kodii: This chatroom will remain the same whenever we need it
shadyforce: I'm starving, I'm going to get dinner
Kodii: Once I get a copy of it, I'll clear the room for extra security
mh: Good. bye Brian
shadyforce: bye
Kodii: farewell

[Kodii]

Team Chat:

mh: Hi Kodii. How are things?
Kodii from x.x.x.88 joined the chat 2 hours ago
Kodii: Hello! I'm excellent, thanks
Kodii: and you?
mh: Fine. Thanks.
mh: Lots to discuss.
Kodii: for sure
mh: Open Borders with shadyforce (this turn) and dsplaisted (next turn) I think is a given without negotiations.?
Kodii: Yes
Kodii: You read Kalin's latest message?
mh: Also, what do you think about offering a defense pact to the Threesome and announcing it openly as some kind of deterrence? With the UAT having a defense pact, their members might get ideas.
Kodii: What will the rest of the anti-UTA think of it?
mh: Yes, wI think we agree to OB for getting us contact with reg and Krill.
mh: Hmm, Ruff is knocking heads left and right. And we have not met Krill yet. I guess I would be happy for them to join at a later date(?).
mh: Will be interesting to see if the UTA declares on Ruff now.
mh: Not sure, he actually has a nearby border to any UTA member.
Kodii: Either way, its good for us
Kodii: I don't think any of the UTA are looking to attack any of us yet
Kodii: They'll want to shoot ahead in tech before doing that
Kodii: Krill suggested ZPV might want to attack with his numidians, but the rest might wait for jumbos
Kodii: shadyforce and dsplaisted are already entertaining the idea of attacking him
mh: Unless the UTA invades with force and keeps his lands. As for giving him directions, I would prefer him to take that route SE of Kobe and not go through our "core". We should however tell him that we have not scouted that shortest route. I am a bit thrown by the waterbody south of Kobe. It appears small buit is shown as saltwater, so definately extents into the fog.
mh: my last post was re. ruff
mh: Yes, I agree, that the most danger comes from a role-playing Borg-Ruff, at the moment.
Kodii: There is definitely a connection SE of Kobe to Customs
mh: Ok. (how do you know?). I offered OB to shady, who is online and has accepted.
Kodii: It seems to make sense, especially with that workboat from Stock
Kodii: If the waterbody north of Stock connects to the waterbody directly E of Kobe, then it is most likely that the land below the waterbody is connected
Kodii: The only way it wouldn't be is if that lake connected down to the waterbody to the south, but that isn't likely, because then Broker would have a ridiculously protected capital
mh: True. I am just wondering, why we have not seen any foreign scouts at Kobe at all.
mh: I am chatting with shady in-game. We should probably set up "embassy"-style chat rooms with him and dsplaisted.
Kodii: Yes, for sure
Kodii: Should I set up a secured one?
Kodii: I don't think anyone has come across the land north of Kobe
Kodii: The land to the southeast goes straight to Broker, which no one has passed through
mh: Yep, please set up one for the threesome. I will ask if shady wants to join right now.
Kodii: Or maybe I should just convert our other chatroom
mh: Yes and chage the password?
mh: shady is waiting for an email. Send one to dsplaisted as well. Maybe he is online.
Kodii: the password to the room isn't our usual one, but the admin password is
Kodii: we can just keep it as bradburycentral
mh: ok, as long as we keep track of how we are chatting to in which room and clear the log. Are you going to send the details to shady and daniel?
Kodii: sure
mh: you still here?
Kodii: yep
mh: Do we want the Threesome to go all the way to free tech gifting once researched?
mh: We could use some help tech wise in the next turns with our economy so streteched
Kodii: I'm happy with that
mh: Me too. I offer it.
mh: I am going to offer OB to The Lins. I am going to send a little email as well, about directions to Daniel. I think seeing his city sites might come in usefull. CoT on the otherhand seems to be nicely tugged away from harm at the moment.
Kodii: alright
Kodii: Good message
Kodii: Do we want to entertain the idea that Swiss proposed in our thread?
mh: We have to pacify Ruff, somehow. But it sure feels weird to give up a city.
mh: We could throw it to him and see what he is prepared to offer. First though, I think we should ask for a NAP as part of the anti-UAT and give him direction to Broker.
mh: I guess we want to be clear what to do with Kobe before we pasture the cows??
mh: Btw. Are you fine with the setup of BH to emphasize commerce and letting the cottages grow instead of a speedy settler?
Kodii: Yes
Kodii: sorry, I forgot to reply about that
mh: Ok, I am drafting a message to Ruff now.
Kodii: It's annoying that Imhotep has a "mh" in his name haha
mh: Ok, I will log in with mostly_harmless next time. Thining about gifting KObe. If we are unlucky and Confuz is founded there, this is off the table, I take it.
Kodii: It's not a big deal, but thanks
Kodii: You got Kalin's latest message?
mh from x.x.x.97 joined the chat 5 minutes ago
mh: Yes. Sorry, Firefox crashed.
mh: I am off to bed now. Please send the Ruff message after reviewing. Bye.
Kodii: Alright, good night

[Kodii]

Interesting email from Krill via shadyforce:

For forewarding to the rest of the anti UTA peeps.

Hi guys,

I would like to start this email by giving my thanks to Shadyforce to acting as a relay for this email, and to for ruff helping facilitate the start up of our little enclave. Are we going to name it, or what? Three letter aconyms FTW! I'm open to sugestions myself.

Yesterday the Lins approached me, threatening a scouting quechua, and demanding that I don't scout any further south. I tried to be non-aggressive, offering a short term NAP, then the Lins replied that they would only consider an NAP so long as I didn't expand more than 6 tiles south of my capital, which is 4 tiles from the northern edge of the map. This is patently unacceptable to myself as that would limit my expansion oppurtunities, and my prefered routes of defense against Lin aggression. It would also give over two thirds of the land between me and the Lins to them.

First of all I want to assure you that I am not worried at all about anything that the Lins', or even the Lins with sunrises' help, can do to me. I feel very secure being able to fight off any units they are able to send to me, without it adversely affecting my teching ability. I am kind of hoping they attack me, it should make for an interesting chapter of the game.

I'm sending this infomation to you so that you are aware of possible misinformation given to you by the UTA.

I would prefer it if you didn't spread any of this infomation to the UTA however.

Krill

First email:

Hi Gentlemen,

I have noticed you have a quechua close to our borders. In the light
of the incident with sunrise earlier in the game, I feel uncomfortable
about having it so close. So uncomfortable that if it moves further
south I will attack and destroy it. I would therefore appreciate if
you moved it back N.

Kalin

My Reply:

Well hello, first time we have heard from you in a long time. And with threatening letters, too.

We find it quite amusing that after deciding to stay away from your borders, to not threaten any workers you had, you stumble upon us with a vulture, and you feel threatened.

Well, let us allay your fears, with an offer of an NAP until t90. You can try to attack us with vultures if you want. Sufficed to say you will not be getting a threatening letter if we see those on our borders. We'll just smash them.

Krill

Lins' third and last email:

Your NAP offer requires some communication with Dreylin, who's mostly
off during this period. I will try to contact him however and will
give you an answer by tomorrow.

Kalin

Chat with Kalin:

11:33 PM Lins: hey you there?
11:34 PM me: yeah, for a bit
Lins: cool
I was about to send you email
but chat would be better
if you have a minute
me: sure
I'll be around for a few minutes
Lins: I considered your propoal
and while I would like to consult with Dreylin
it's unlikely that he'll respond in time
11:36 PM I therefore would like to give you a counter proposal for the NAP
I noticed that you already built a city at the choke point that is a natural border between our lands
good job, you moved fast!
my proposal therefore is:
11:37 PM NAP until T100 on condition that you don't settle any cities south of that city at the choke point
me: no chance
Lins: okay that was that then
11:38 PM me: The counter counter offer would be that I settle 1 city south of that, 1 tile north of the cows
and no further south
Lins: no
me: good luck trying to stop me then
Lins: thanks for the wish
11:39 PM seriously, that's not acceptable
me: ?
I settle 1 city 3 tiles further south?
Lins: you settling S of the choke point
11:40 PM me: that city is 6 tiles from my cap
which is the distance between hun and you
Lins: let me look at the map
11:43 PM so you want to settle a city 1NW of the cows?
me: 1N
11:44 PM Lins: ok that's a no
me: why, you want the horse?
Lins: yes
me: shrug we'd trade you the horse for something reasonable
Lins: you already have 1 source
11:45 PM me: and we can easily stop you hooking up that source
and instead we are offering to trade it to you for something reasonable
resource?
Lins: I don't buy that...
need to go right now...
me: you have our graphs
I sugest you look at them
11:46 PM and then think if you can fight a war against us 1v1
Lins: we can die trying
me: you might want to ask Dreylin about Kaz versus SANCTA
Lins: I don't know about that
me: that's why I said ask him
Lins: but as I said, we can die trying
11:47 PM I really need to go, sorry
me: cya
when do you get back?


The Chat with Broker:

7:34 PM me: Hi mate, got a moment to chat about the RB game?
broker0033: sure
7:35 PM mate? You aussie?
me: heh
English
We were saying that aeons before they were
broker0033: I could be rude and say close enough
me: ah
broker0033: American humor
me: Well
You share a common ancestor
so you are related anyway
:P
7:36 PM I just wanted to relay a message to you, that I got from the Lins
broker0033: My boss is from scottland I always comment on her irish accent
me: haha
awesome
Hi Gentlemen,

I have noticed you have a quechua close to our borders. In the light
of the incident with sunrise earlier in the game, I feel uncomfortable
about having it so close. So uncomfortable that if it moves further
south I will attack and destroy it. I would therefore appreciate if
you moved it back N.

Kalin
7:37 PM I recieved that message after a scouting quechua uncovered the Lins borders, and a vulture poped up next to it
I recieved it sometime yesterday,
broker0033: Little more abrubt than I would have been
me: Well, what can I say
we are all differnet
7:38 PM broker0033: No I meant he was
me: it was only a woody 1 quechua though
Oh, I know
and in the fullness of time, here was the reply
7:39 PM if gmail will load the next page..
Well hello, first time we have heard from you in a long time. And with threatening letters, too.

We find it quite amusing that after deciding to stay away from your borders, to not threaten any workers you had, you stumble upon us with a vulture, and you feel threatened.

Well, let us allay your fears, with an offer of an NAP until t90. You can try to attack us with vultures if you want. Sufficed to say you will not be getting a threatening letter if we see those on our borders. We'll just smash them.

Kril
Yes, I was equaly abrupt
perhaps moreso
broker0033: tone was already set
7:40 PM me: true
but still, I could have been magnamous
the counter offer was this:
an NAP until t100
so long as I didn;t expand more than 6 tiles south of my captial
7:41 PM now, what I am about to say you wil have to take on trust
until regoarrarr can say it is true
but my capital is 4 tiles from the northern edge of the map
I'll email you the chat now
7:42 PM sent to gmail account
broker0033: got it
me: I know you guys in the 5 way alliance are a close knit group[
7:43 PM but I have sent the past day thinking about wether I should send my side of the story to you
*spent
I figured you'll make your own decisions
so I might as well give you the full story
7:44 PM Also, you told me you are fairly far south
broker0033: I appriciate the info...still reading
about 10 tiles from the southern edge
me: Well, Kalin basically demanded slightly more than 2/3 of the land between us by distance
by total land area, closer to 75%
7:45 PM broker0033: Conversation digressed at the end
me: oh yeah
1v1 he can't beat me
7:46 PM no chance in hell
2v1 with sunrise, I'm not woried
do you, regoarrarr, and ZPV really want to go to war with me
?
broker0033: I am sure I dont worry you
me: yeah
Sory, mate, you you don't
7:47 PM I hope I don;t worry you though.
broker0033: Well if you were on my border....you would
Navy's there is that big ocean lake...
right this moment...not so much
7:48 PM me: Well, we are at opposite ends of the world
both have not alot to do with each other
makes sense
broker0033: Probably equally crappy land
me: pobably
*probably
if things had turned out differently, we could have tried to split Dreylin in half
7:49 PM alas, not to be
still doesn't mean I think as you as an enemy for the entire game
just that right now we aren't on the same side
broker0033: I dont believe I have done anything agressive.
me: True
7:50 PM you do have a cleaner record than me
OTOH, you have alot more allies than me, and a lot greater choices to build
broker0033: Other than a long tundra march I have secure borders yes.
7:51 PM me: Ah
so I take it you can only expand north?
broker0033: Mostly... My UB makes some tundra sites viable
me: ah
7:52 PM broker0033: 75% reduction in maintainance is helpful
me: I hope that the Lins gave you more than half the land between you
yup
otherwise they seem to be going for a collosal land grab
the majority of land between me and them, as well as a lot of land with you
broker0033: I am happy with the split
7:53 PM me: cool
I'd be hapy with a 50/50 split
alas.
Well
I gave you the pertinent facts.
I suppose I should let you digest them
broker0033: Thank you I always appriciate information
me: np
7:54 PM feel free to spread it around with sunrise, regoarrarr and ZPV
broker0033: Will do
me: thanks

Of course, all you lurkers probably already know about this.

A couple things of interest that I gained from this:
a) Both Krill and Kalin aren't exactly the friendliest negotiators out there
b) There MAY not be a connection to Broker SE of Kobe, according to the description of his land (ie He can only expand into the tundra or to the north towards the Lins)

[Kodii]

To Ruff/TAD:

<hailing frequencies open>

Hi The Borg,
we have still lots of fog SE of Unimatrix1 & Kobe Niku, but have run through Brokers lands with a scout, already using a different route.
The shortest way appears to be a straight line from our Kobe Niku colony (bordering Unimatrix 1).
We think it must be around 10 tiles travel from Unimatrix1 to hit their cultural borders. However, we have only unfogged half of the way, so there could be surprises like other civs (unlikely), barb cities (already?), mountain ranges (possible) or yet more lakes forcing a detour.
The "safe" route will take you in a long "hook" to the south, almost reaching the southern edge. This is the way our scout used, but it would be double the distance for your drones to travel.

We have very good relations with Broker, so we would like to improve our relations with you while the relations to Broker decline (and he will smell a rat for sure).
We still sleep uneasily at night with your fearsome Praetorian drones nearby. We would sleep much better and more importantly, could focus on teching for the alliance if we had a NAP hardwired into your drones.
There is also the idea of "acquiring" one of your drones as part of a trade. Being able to study them closely might help to build mutual tolerance.

What do you think?

We would also like to know about your strike on ZPV.
Presumably, you captured a worker?

From Ruff:

Hi Guys,

I have a visible path to Broker, and it does involve running a little south around a lake.

No interest in a NAP at this moment but the tech alliance sort of forces it doesn't it? Let me think about that one.

You want to buy a drone - why?

I'm currently waiting the 9 hrs in game before assimilating 2 workers with the chance of a 3rd.

To Imhotep:

Hello!

Finally our fine civilizations have crossed paths. I am surprised we didn't meet sooner given our proximity. We are directly south of Ruff and east of dsplaisted.

Do you have any recommendations for our exploring warrior? We still need to meet Krill, sunrise089 and regoarrarr, so directions to their homes would be greatly appreciated.

May our relationship within the "anti-UTA" (we need a better name...) be fruitful!

From Imhotep:

Hi guys!

Regoarrarr ist to my West, north of shadyforce. As the hub to the north is blocked by my culture you have to go West anyway…and yes, I hope that we may forge a great alliance too!

To the Lins:

Alright, we have reached your borders. I believe regoarrarr is arranging to meet us there. Is there any way around your land to the east? We seem to be blocked off in the west.

From the Lins:

Hi Kodii & MH,

Rego is healing in our territory. I can tell him to come down S to
meet you. To meet sunrise, you can go W and there is a 1tile passage.

I can give you OB as a sign of friendship, even though you don't
really need them. I would however ask that you don't reveal anything
you may see to anybody and I'll take your word for that.

To the Lins:

Hi,
I think it is now time to actually sign Open Borders.
We benefit from meeting reg and looking for the missing civs in your north.
Your scout near our territory would benefit by shortcutting to meet dsplaisted. He is directly west of your current scout position. 12 tiles away.
You will however, pass through one of our cities, so the non-disclosure will work both ways.
Happy scouting.

From the Lins:

Yes of course. Let's agree on the fact that whatever information we
exchange or learn from one another, should remain private unless
otherwise specified.

When entering our border head N, then follow the road. Be careful, I
had a barb warrior that suicided last turn, and another coming in.

[Kodii]

Foreign Status:

We signed OB with shadyforce this turn. We also requested OB with the Lins.

[mostly_harmless]

I guess we want to have open borders with Imhotep. dsplaisted is a given.
What about Ruff. Will we get a trade route between Kobe & Unimatrix1? I think so.
How happy are we with Ruffs army marching through our land?

mh

[Kodii]

From dsplaisted to the 3Some:

I'm pretty sure it would be best if we kept our threesome/defensive pact a secret. Of course I'm biased because it's not my civ that's likely to get attacked.

It doesn't seem like announcing the defensive pact would do much to deter an attack on you, since we won't be in a position to provide assistance anytime soon after an attack. It is much more important to be prepared for the attack before it happens. Keep decent defense in border cities, make sure to have forests chops and tiles roaded, and most importantly track the demographics for people who might attack you. Try to figure out the exact composition of their military, so you can know what you'll be up against before they attack you. That way we will have a chance of actually providing help in time for it to be useful to you.

The defender has a lot of advantages in Civ IV, so if you don't fall behind in tech or production, and don't get caught by surprise, you should be able to wipe out the attackers without suffering as much of a loss yourself. Since it will be in your territory, you will have the advantage of mobility (this is why it's important to have lots of roads) which will help make sure you can get the units you need to the place you need them. I don't think it's very likely they'll attack with a significant force before we get construction/HBR, and after that you will be able to use your roads to make sure you hit their stack with catapults before they can hit yours, and horse archers to flank their catapults if needed. (I'm certainly not an expert on waging a war, I'm basically just reiterating what I've learned by lurking the Apolyton demogame and SANCTA civfanatics team.)

The most successful attacks are tho ones that are unexpected (as demonstrated many times over in the Apolyton demogame). If we keep our defensive pact a secret, we improve the odds that we will be able to launch a surprise counterattack. I might be able to boat ZPV's capital for example, or at least hurt his economy, or I could drop an unexpected defensive force in your territory. Information is valuable, and generally an enemy with more accurate information will make better decisions than one with less accurate information. So let's not give away good information for free!

I also don't think it would be good for the anti-UTA alliance if we let them know the three of us our cooperating more closely. I don't think we want to agree to a defensive pact with everyone, and if we decline to do so they won't be happy. We don't want to increase the chances that the anti-UTA will break apart before the UTA does. As an aside, I'm not really sure how this will play out, but we should look for opportunities to encourage the UTA to split apart.

Let me know what you think.

I think I agree with him. He did a pretty good analysis. What do you think, mh?

From the Lins:

Move 1N to meet Rego next turn.

We now have Open Borders with both of them. We will meet regoarrarr on his turn.

T73:

We have Writing, Mathematics due in 12, but we do not have the cash to sustain it. Do we want to shut off research?

Both of our scouting warriors reveal copper. One in Lin land and one west of Imhotep.

Valensise is moving back to our capital to chop the plains hill.
Himelfarb is moving to pasture the cows at Kobe
Boehm and Höpfner are chopping at CoT
Steiner is roading to City 2

Our axeman (I'll name him later) is headed to reveal the fog around City 2

[Kodii]

How happy are we with Ruffs army marching through our land?

If we can get that NAP, I'm completely fine with it. If he's attacking Broker, he isn't attacking us. We need to put together a reply to his emaill.

[mostly_harmless]

Well, Ruff said he is not interested in a NAP.

I think we still want to get Open Borders with him, if onyl for a +2gpt from a trade route in Kobe. Or is there any downpoint to offering him that?

I think we should shut down research until we have enough cash and a library up in BH. We might even get the bonus from the UTA should they really tech faster than us.

mh

[Kodii]

Regarding swapping research paths with Imhotep, I think us researching Monarchy would benefit us more than it would benefit the group, and in this case, I think we need to put the needs of the group ahead.

Math is such a critical tech at the moment, and I think we want to get it as soon as possible.

What we COULD do is ask Imhotep to research CoL and we Oracle Monarchy, but I don't think we want to do that either.

mh, what do you think about dsplaisted's email about keeping the 3Some a secret? I think he did a good job of analyzing the situation and we should probably reply to say that we agree/disagree.

mh to me:

hope this gets to you in time.
Imhoteps ETA for Monarchy is T95!
That's a lot. I think he still needs to get to Priesthood, which we already have, but cannot trade to him.

My suggestion is to do Monarchy ourselves and have Imhotep research the cheaper Math.
I think we can do Monarchy by T88.

What do you think? Worth asking? It would unlock the wine tiles earlier

To the 3Some:

Hi Threesome,
I have not spoken to Kodii about this, so he might veto this suggestion.
Imhotep said he has Monarchy by T95. Presumably he still has to research Priesthood before that.
T95 is quite late (HerRule, Wine).
My suggestion is to have us (Kodii & mh) research Monarchy and have IMhotep research Math.
Of course we would have to enquire about this with Imhotep first to see if the ETAs match better.

But would you be ok, with getting Math a bit later (presumably, depends on Imhoteps research rate) and getting Monarchy e lot earlier?
We think we could get it ~T87-88.

Want to have your opinion before addressing the whole anti-UTA, because you might want to have those better chops available earlier.

From shadyforce:

I disagree with this because I believe Maths is a critical bottleneck tech and that the earlier someone in our alliance can get started on Construction in particular, the better. (And on a personal note, I am planning a lot of chopping in the near future and the news of T82-ish Maths was music to my ears!)

From dsplaisted:

I think we probably want Mathematics sooner. It's the prerequisite to Construction and Calendar, and will help with Currency if you don't get that via the Oracle. I think we want Construction ASAP for catapults, and if Mathematics is delayed, we might have some people unable to start research on their target for the next round of techs.

Also, Mathematics will help me chop out the Colossus.

Once we get Alphabet, you should give Imhotep Priesthood if he doesn't have it already. And Monotheism too, for that matter, if you don't have it.

Monarchy will certainly be nice, but there's still a ton of cities to settle, so I'll probably just be building settlers at the happy cap or something.