0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
(June 19th, 2013, 16:46)Merovech Wrote: What about teching Drama and bulbing sanitation?
They're almost the same cost. It would save me 46 beakers - and would actually cost beakers if I get Construction before Sanitation for an extra prereq bonus.
Unless I can use Drama itself, it would be better to settle the Bard and use the gpt to straight research Sanitation faster. And I just don't see culture as my issue, not given the ratio of Freaks with Swords to Freaks with Shows.
Would be worth doing if I needed the option to build culture. Or if I wanted the Lyre and culture slider. But I just don't see if for this empire.
Well, we're moving again! And apparently Nox is broken and we can't apply the fix . Probably still worth getting Esus for Gibbon and Undercouncil, though.
Well, hmm. I think. Maybe it would be worth going to AV instead (or in addition)? We're planning to pick up Philo fairly soon, already have KotE, so it's still just one tech off the path. We lose a Heroic archmage option, but we might very well get some Potent adepts built here soon, so we might be able to have archmagi without Gibbon. And AV would buy us nicer non-mage things - a working shrine , potential to Sacrifice the Weak to feed Slavery, possibly some Priests who could cure some Mutations. And a much more useful religion in case we lose Arcane and get Spiritual.
Main worry: I feel myself tempted to pick up "only" 3-4 more techs: Corruption of Spirit, Infernal Pact, Priesthood, maybe Fanaticism...our GNP isn't all that good and Mages are still the key to success. Stay on Target, Mardoc! Well, this is far in the future in any event, maybe City States, Foreign trade, and cottage growth time will fix the GNP by then. And if it doesn't, then Sorcery first.
News for the turn:
Founded city 5, called it Swordswallower. I really could use more names - I'm reserving elephant show for the barb city since it's got the big bones, but I'm running out of ideas for other cities. Haven't seen enough circuses in my life, I guess.
Swordswallower is breaking even at 100% gold, as we work the wines tile - costs went up by about 5 gpt, and so did income. Carto's got to happen sooner rather than later, but it does look like we'll be ok for now.
GNP is still pretty bad; we're definitely in third with definitely the most culture production. We've got a handful of Hamlets now, though, so there's hope. I did decide to swap from the desert incense to a plains cottage; soon we'll be able to work both, but it's better to grow faster I think. And to start the cottage growing.
We're working a lot of cottages at this point and still building more to work soon. Our econ would be in pretty good shape if I weren't pushing REX so hard . HK has more cities than us (he's Expansive after all) but we're ahead of Ellimist and have to be ahead of the Sidar.
For GNP, we mainly just need time. Either a period to consolidate and grow cottages, or at least to push through to better civics. Once we're close to Carto, I think I will use the Artist for a first golden age, for a Carto/Slavery revolt. We can get our Foreign Trade/Undercouncil revolt a bit later with the worldspell or the next great people.
Knowledge of the Ether is in, and I paused our Freak construction to build Mage Guilds instead. Somehow we're still Arcane on T86. I don't think Insane is broken, just that this is how the luck fell out. Which means the doubled hammers can still be lost any turn; best to get the Guilds built while they're cheap. Then we'll finish the Freaks before they decay, and swap over to mostly adept production.
Things look good, though, for some cheap Mage Guilds and some Potent adepts!
Settler's due in three, so our next city will happen in four turns. After AH, slightly before Fishing; it'll be pretty good with cow, bronze, farm, furs, and a lot of lake tiles. Sailing ought to make it a really strong city.
We're saving gold and dumping Inspiration beakers into Animal Husbandry. Three cities are unhealthy, and we're about to get Pigs and Cows, so this is the right time for it. I think I will eventually pave over the capital's mine with a Pasture; haven't found any other sheep for health, plus the cap could use the food. Should take ~4 turns for gold saving and spending, then we'll have AH. Still think a logical plan is AH -> Fishing -> Sailing -> Hunting -> Writing -> Trade -> Cartography -> Philosophy -> one of Deception or Corruption of Spirit. Well, except it's not obvious which of Carto, Trade, and Philo should come first. I may have to sit down and run the numbers with some assumptions.
Question: Is Deception worth taking for Undercouncil (improve our slave capturing odds, +10% cash, resolutions if anyone joins us) and the option of Gibbon, or should we skip it and go for AV instead? I'm actually leaning toward skipping it entirely.
The barb city is being lovely - sent out another warrior to flatland for our sword to kill at 99.6% odds instead of leaving it home to have ~50% odds. The city is down to just one archer and two warriors; I'm going to attack as soon as the swords en route arrive. Should be 5-6 turns.
The copper/lake settler is due in 3, after which Ringmaster will take a break to get its own Mage Guild in place and grow up some more.
Also, some diplo that I didn't post while in a ranting mood:
HK Wrote:> Congratulations! But...'finally'? It wasn't an automatic victory? Those trees are tough!
Alas, it was not. The mistforms are well-fed on the blood of Illian warriors, and managed to kill a treant before losing to one.
Unfortunately, our celebration was premature. It seems that mistforms continue to plague us, and now we have no trees to defend us. We will consider your advice concerning the hawks.
As for the Calabim, we have made no deals with them. Nor do we expect to be offered any. We surmise that their leader sees you as the greatest threat to their dominance in this continent. But like you, they see war as a distant threat. I think it is likely that they will befriend the Sidar and attempt to conquer us in the not-too-distant future.
me Wrote:Oh, dear, this is distressing. If the Mistforms are still an issue by the time we've discovered a method to see them, you can count on the Circus for help. Of course, our Hawk suggestion is merely an idea. You would have a better sense for what is possible in your society.
At least a single Mistform can only be in one place at one time.
Much depends on timing, but you can count on us to aid you in some form should the Calabim attack you first. They have stolen away the Drama bard for their nefarious purposes, which will inhibit Circus growth while boosting their own.
We also intend to discover some means of trading with your people for mutual gain. Have you any seaports? Are the Mistform menaces in the path of a potential road connection?
HK Wrote:Thusfar, the mistforms have been content to menace the holy city of the Fellowship, Volantis' Rest. The treants we called upon were able to construct a temple, and the citizenry now takes shelter there. Already many lives have been lost, and those of our people that remain live in a constant state of fear.
Thessa has dealt poorly with the crisis. After receiving reports that mistforms survived the March, she withdrew into virtual seclusion, seeing no one but a few select advisors. Yet their advice seems to fall on deaf ears. Instead she issues erratic proclamations as to how to direct our efforts. Granaries that sit empty. Settlers with nowhere to go.
And talk of strengthening our defenses is completely ignored... instead, she mutters nonsense about dancing bears. I fear that madness has taken her.
As for your suggestions: it had been long been our intention to push west, and perhaps find a way to peacefully coexist with the clan of giants making its home in the mountains there. Our plans have been greatly delayed by the mistform activity, but we hope to resume them soon.
Nevertheless, it will probably be some time before we can make contact with you in that way. However, we do have several cities by the coast, and our sages are experienced cartographers.
HK
Hmm. So...HK was really counting on the Treants to clear his territory, hmm? Well, I suppose ignoring Mistforms might be better than continually feeding them warriors.
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Also, iirc, the only problem with Nox Noctis is that the game will crash if you build it without first adopting Esus.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Thanks for the suggestions. Thoth's might be a smidgen difficult to fit into 15 characters, though!
(plus, I prefer for the evil to be hidden a bit better)
(June 26th, 2013, 18:45)Merovech Wrote: Also, iirc, the only problem with Nox Noctis is that the game will crash if you build it without first adopting Esus.
Well, if I understood Sareln's description right, the issue is any time the Nox effect is attempted to be applied to dead units. Which is any time someone who has lost units that turn, acquires or loses it. I think I may have to propose a ban, or at least a requirement that no one ever conquer the Nox city.
Still, now that I'm thinking that way, I'm suddenly not sure Esus makes sense regardless. Why? Well, what's the main effect of Nox? You can attack the foe without them being able to retaliate! Well, look here: that's the main effect of Puppets, too, when used properly . It's just that you get the effect by hitting from ludicrous ranges instead of by hitting from invisibility. So...maybe I'd really rather have a boost I don't already get from another direction. And I want to go for Slavery anyway, for orc slaves if nothing else, so Sacrifice the Weak starts to look pretty strong.
Today's turn was pretty uneventful. HidingKneel's Golden Age ended, revealing that I'm actually 2nd in all demos but food and soldiers (1st there).
My swords were a little closer to the barb city than I realized, should be 4 turns now til conquest. At least, assuming that 3 swords + 3 warriors can beat the garrison in one turn, which is currently 1 archer + 2 warriors.
Other than that, just moved the sliders to the right. Don't think I finished anything this turn except some tile improvements. I've gotten the core cities to the point where I can only just barely work all the cottages I have built, so that's good; still going to put down a few more for future growth.
A barb warrior showed up in the jungle a few turns away from the bronze/cow city site. Probably no issue, although I might have to defend in city rather than attack - all my spare military is up by the barb city.
On a bigger note:
I'm really considering popping the GA next turn, and following it immediately with Revelry. Looking at the demos, Ellimist is too far ahead on the snowball unless I do something about it. At the very least, I'm going to need to get into my mid-game civics quick. And my current path won't do that.
At current average research rate, ~50 bpt, I need the following techs by the end of GA. I think, given my number of 1 commerce tiles worked and costs, that GA would about double my research rate, at least until my cottages are grown up. Maybe more, in 4 turns when I have two more cities of costs without much more income than now.
Without GA:
Animal Husbandry (2t)
Fishing (4t)
Sailing (6t)
Cartography (4t)
Philosophy (6t)
Hunting (6t)
Total: 28 turns of non-GA.
Didn't count beakers here, guess another 12 turns or so:
Writing
Trade
So, realistically, at my current rate, we're looking at 40+ turns to get into mid-game civics if I don't use the GA. Meanwhile, my costs keep going up fast, probably faster than my cottages grow. And I don't think I can afford to wait 40+ turns for my next military tech, either.
With GA, that's 20 turns, most likely. Except with GA I can also revolt into Carto/Slavery faster. And get adepts out faster, to start Inspiring. Settle an offshore city or three. And maybe dump some hammers into Elder Councils. All things that ought to boost my research even further.
What the GA doesn't buy me, much, is more cities - maybe I speed up a tad with the extra hammers, if I don't put them into adepts. But since my tech is lagging and my city count isn't, that seems reasonable too.
If I'm wrong and it doesn't quite double me - well, 27 turns of GA is a pretty decent safety margin for a path I'm expecting to take 20 turns.
I still miss out on most of the GPP doubling effect - I just don't have the food or specialist slots to really take advantage. So I also miss out on the chance for a really long GA chain. And this GA won't be worth nearly as many raw beakers and hammers as if I waited.
But...I just don't see a time later where a GA will cut quite as many turns from my goals. It's not nearly the same raw power as if I wait, but we're looking at cutting:
at least two turns of anarchy, three if I can land a religion in the next 27 turns as well
probably 20 turns of research and therefore
20+ turns of cottage growth due to earlier Foreign Trade
A handful of turns on city settlements and first adepts
None of this will be nearly as significant later. I expect to want to keep the civics and religion for a long, long, time.
Research boost is high, mainly because although we've a decent Income, we've also high Costs. GA boosts Income proportionally without changing costs, which is why I can believe net might double. Later on, GA will be a smaller portion of income, and also costs will be a much smaller fraction of income.
Meanwhile, techs are still fairly cheap, and still mostly economic. So we definitely should get a snowball effect.
And, well, Ellimist is now about 1.5x me in both GNP and hammers, and tied in food. I can't let that snowball continue too long or nothing will catch it. Lo and behold, golden age boosts exactly those categories where I'm behind!
Well, I thought I'd have longer to think it over, but there was a save waiting for me when I got home, and I think Molach's still awake, so I had to play.
First, a random event, I'm not sure it even does anything:
I went for the golden age. And, well, it pretty well *did* double my demos.
Before:
After:
It, um, it literally doubled my gpt from 37 to 74. Slightly less than double on the GNP, because of culture and the Inspirations...but wow! AH researched in one turn
It's been a while since I've shown the cities, so here's their current state:
Ringmaster:
Note that I *am* actually due a Great Person from here before the GA ends, as long as I keep Inspiration running. May be worth running a Sage to cut that time down a bit, and also see if I can get another Artist from Trapeze.
Two cottages, two hamlets, otherwise food and mines. And there's still plenty of room to grow if I can make myself stop building settlers for a minute.
Trapeze:
Mostly running out of good tiles. A Spring adept will partially fix this, but Trapeze is low on food, too.
Still, it's a good 2nd city. A lot of production/GNP early game. Can borrow some of Ringmaster's cottages if I build excess down south, to keep them growing.
High Wire:
Quite a bit of potential, especially post-Spring.
Lion Tamer:
I need about six more workers here, with that lovely food surplus and green terrain. Almost keeping up.
Swordswallower:
New kid on the block. Wines were improved first because they were in culture, sugar's next because it was on the far side from the barbs, corn's most important and will be online soon.
Finally, in other news:
the barb city built another warrior .
And...we have horses! In a spot I'm really not sure I can afford to pave . Trapeze is low on food as it is!
Although maybe it'll help once I start stealing tiles for Ringmaster. Or at the very least, get some more health!
Holy cow, three turns in one day. And this is without any scheduled blitz or anything!
We've got a sixth city:
Going to be pretty good as soon as it grows up. Lots of tiles already ready to work.
Overview:
Yep, that's Fishing in 1 turn, as well. Although we're going to have to save up again for the next push - on to Sailing, I think.
Going to see if I can't grow Ringmaster a size or two before I go for the next settler. Be handy to get the new cities past size 1, too . Mage Guild, Adepts, and maybe I'll finally slip in Dereptus. Plus it's about time to start putting up Smokehouses and Granaries, since Slavery's on the horizon and all.
In foreign news, Ellimist's definitely not going to be the only threat here:
For the time being, though, Elves are our Friends.
. Probably still worth getting Esus for Gibbon and Undercouncil, though.
, potential to Sacrifice the Weak to feed Slavery, possibly some Priests who could cure some Mutations. And a much more useful religion in case we lose Arcane and get Spiritual.
. It's just that you get the effect by hitting from ludicrous ranges instead of by hitting from invisibility. So...maybe I'd really rather have a boost I don't already get from another direction. And I want to go for Slavery anyway, for orc slaves if nothing else, so Sacrifice the Weak starts to look pretty strong.
. Trapeze is low on food as it is!
