RB Pitboss #1 SPOILER - Hatshepsut / India

[regoarrarr]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I actually try to put everyone's RB screen names in, like if they email or IM, I try to copy and paste the IM screen name or real name with the RB name, just to keep things clear. I can't speak for other, lesser, leader :-D

Zoomed out screenshots would be nice. Can someone point me to a tutorial on flying camera? Every time I try to zoom out past a certain level, I just get clouds. If someone is out there and knows the best way to get around that, I'm happy to give it a whirl.

[Dantski]

Have shady and the lins had some fighting? Sounds like it from the email/tech thread

[regoarrarr]

No - it was not the lins, it was shadyforce and ZPV. Shady declared on ZPV and burned down Hippo.



There are 2 Immortals and a HA around. There is also another HA and an axe at The Castle. ZPV has the 2 Num Cavs in my lands in the picture and told me today that he will have 11 total Num Cavs within 2 turns.

I think it is likely that ZPV will do just fine in this, but unfortunately it may take him awhile. I did notice that shady is #1 in production in the demos (I'm #2).

Silver lining - Fairfield will finally get some food! As there is no way I'll lose the cows now, and if ZPV refounds to get the horse, he'll probably refound on the tile 2W that gets the fish.

As an aside Krill bulbed Philosophy.

Email I sent to the G5

ZPV (and all),

Sorry to break it to you if you're just now waking up, but shadyforce declared war on you and has burned down Hippo (for the other folk, that's the border city between our 3 borders, and the city with ZPV's horse resource)

He has 2 Immortals and an HA near the city ruins, and another axe and HA near The Castle (his other city)

I am not going to end turn until I hear from you. I will be up around 7 am my time (EDT) to check in tomorrow, assuming I don't hear from you tonight (as I know it's the middle of the night for you).

Does anybody have a spare Horse resource that they can send to ZPV? I will have one in about 4 turns but don't have one now, and if he was in the middle of any Num Cav construction, he will lose those hammers if he doesn't get a horse from someone.

Other thoughts?

[regoarrarr]

Email from shadyforce

Apologies for the delay. My cabinet has been preoccupied.

All I'm going to say is that the UTA exists by choice and the NUTA exists as a necessary response. If the UTA were to split up then the NUTA is likely to collapse and the game's allegiences will shift once again.

And my response

Yes it seems that your cabinet has indeed been busy! At least the Minister of War :-D

So why ZPV? I guess the unasked question there is "Why not me?" Was it tactics? Or my shining face? Or is mine coming?

As for the collapse of the UTA and NUTA, I suppose that is possible. But wouldn't you agree that a likely strategy if we were to break up, would be that you would just pick us off because we'd be weaker?

Worried about ZPV not showing up - he can definitely lose the worker SE of the horses if shady gets to play again

[regoarrarr]

Okay so as you probably saw, ZPV showed up and requested a pause. We talked a bit about things and he estimated Shady's power from the power graph (1 turn old) as 117K.

I did some estimates and found

Shady Power

6 cities (I think). Assuming 5,4,3,3,2,2 gives 19 total pop or 9K for pop

Tech:
Sailing, Hunting, Mining, AH - 8K
Wheel, Alpha, Metal Casting, Construction - 16K
Math, Archery - 12K
BW - 8K
HBR, IW - 20K

Total from tech: 64K

Known units:
2 Immortals (Famine and Pestilence) and HA (Sir Gallopsalot) near Hippo: 14K
HA, Axe, Spear near The Castle: 16K
Archer Tracy: 3K
Skirmisher: 4K

5 Garrison warriors: 10K
1 barracks (assume): 4K

Total: 124K

So it's probably safe to say that he has virtually nothing other than what we can see. So I think it may turn out that shady has "chosen unwisely"

[Mortius]

So I think it may turn out that shady has "chosen unwisely"

Taking into account ZPVC... plans, he has chosen very wisely

[regoarrarr]

Taking into account ZPVC... plans, he has chosen very wisely

Lol. That's true I suppose. I still think that ZPV is going to have the upper hand in this war.

Of course, as you lurkers may not know yet, dsplaisted also declared war once the turn ticked over (I thought it was suspicious that he hadn't ended turn) and razed Leptis.

[Jabah]

What was not very clever (sorry about that) from both ZPV and you was :
1. you have a OB with shady
2. he had parked for a while enough mobile units to take Hippo
3. neither you or ZPV have notice or didn't bother to cancel OB/take preemptive measures... (either not online for all that time or thought he was just a nice guy )
...
Or you are evil and just wanted both your neighbours to go wasting all their units against each other and you collect the rest

[regoarrarr]

Yeah I think we got lulled into a false sense of security there. I think we've made that mistake now twice

1) Forming a group of 5, and just kind of assuming that we would just destroy the other 6 and that they wouldn't get around to forming their own counter group

2) Knowing ZPV was going to destroy shadyforce and just assuming that he (and dsp) would just lay down and take it.

[regoarrarr]

Site probably went down because it COULD NOT HANDLE THE EXCITEMENT THAT IS GOING ON IN THIS GAME!!!!!!!!!

Lots to report on. Let's start with a very interesting chat I had with Krill

Krill: So, enjoying the show over there?
me: lol
Krill: Must be fun knowing that two of your neighbours are fighting a war
and that the third has been crippled
11:19 AM me: who's the 3rd?
Krill: sunrise?
11:20 AM me: oh haven't heard what happened to him
unless you're refering to when you took his worker
Krill: that would be it
me: gotcha
Krill: struggling along on 4 cities...
and you there with your eight and H
*HG
11:21 AM me: (says the man with 9)
Krill: Reckon everyone in the UTA is going to be happy that they are geasring up for war and you are just building.
10
but I'm not exactly playing builder
11:22 AM me: yes your power graph is impressive
11:25 AM so what are your plans ofr your quechua?
11:26 AM Krill: same reason Cav didn't get hunting
need something for happiness
oh
you mean the one just inside your territory?
me: yes
i assume youg ot my email
11:27 AM Krill: er...
no
me: yesterday?
Krill: last email I got from you was weeks ago
11:28 AM me: let me check
11:29 AM basically it was a more polite version of the one you sent me telling me to get out of your lands
weird it didn't send
i'll resend
Krill: cool, thanks
11:30 AM me: sent
Krill: reading
11:33 AM ok
Im happy with saying the NAP col down finishes in 3 turns
coutning last turn as the first turn of the cool down
I'll get the quechua south of Norwood
11:36 AM Interesting email
me: keep in mind that was written before the drama of today
but i think that only reinforces some parts of it
Krill: You think anything has changed since ZPV got a little dented?
11:37 AM if anything that helps me long term, and not you
me: well you could take the angle that anything that weakens both my neighbors helps me
but i would agree with you overall
Krill: Short term, I agree with you
11:38 AM but from what I can tell unless the UTA gets disbanded, things aren't looking particulary good for any of you.
11:39 AM (as an aside, this is why you never put togehter an alliance that has between 40 and 50% of the players in a game. A larger counter) alliance will always form...
me: yeah
i don't understand why you guys just didn't roll over and die
we declared that the 5 of us were going to win
so why do you seem to have such a problem with that?

Krill: ha
11:41 AM I suppose the simple question is are you going to attack Shadyforce now, or let him deal with ZPV
I can see ZPVs power in the demos
11:42 AM I assume he is second most powerful
me: you can see the rest of our power? all the way from your high up mountain?
yeah i'm not sure what his power is
i think i am #4 or so?
11:43 AM Krill: I suppose hte questino is how much of that is garrisons and what is an attack force
me: that is indeed a question
1 that under the current alliance structure i'm sure you will understand that i don't answer
11:44 AM so the real question is how do you and i maneuver in such a way that improves both of our long term interests?
or are you of the feeling that you are in control of the game?
11:45 AM and don't need any shaking up
11:46 AM Krill: That depends. I have my allies doing what I want them to do. I also have most of my enemies doing exactly what I want them to do, so You aren't far wrong saying I think I am in control of the game
me: am i doing what you want me to do?
Krill: Sitting out and building?
me: is that what i'm doing?
(i feel like we're playing the questions game from whose line is it anyways)
Krill: or building a few defensive troops
11:47 AM never actually listened to that
me: it could be funny
the game i'm referring to was one where 2 peopel had to have a conversation but every sentence had to be a question
but anyway, do you want me to attack shadyforce, or not?
i would assume you would want me to not attack him
but maybe you'd rather i waste hammers on troops?
Krill: What do I care? You aren;t attacking me whatever you do

11:48 AM me: well how can i do what you want me to do if i don't know what that is!
Krill: good question
11:49 AM I'm sure a diplomacy player such as yourself should enjoy figuring outh te answer to that
me: lol
so here's a question for you
and after that i have to leave as i have a lunch appt in 10 mins
Krill: cool
11:50 AM me: how do i (and/or the rest of what you have called the UTA) ensure that, should we "break up" (however that is defined and that's probably worth a whole other question), the NUTA doesn't just use that to pick us off one by one
if i say hey zpv broker lins and sunrise - i don't want any of your techs and i'm not on your side
wouldn't a) they view me as an enemy and b) you would too?
11:51 AM those are the types of questions that run through my head
on that note i am off
i'll keep my window up so feel free to respond if you have thoughts
me: i'm back if you want to continue the conversation
1:13 PM Krill: ok
the NUTA isn't one large entity. It is made up of 6 members
me: i would say the same thing about what you call the UTA
1:14 PM it started out as just an agreement to trade those initial 5 techs
and i'd say if it's gotten any closer, it's due to reaction of the NUTA
1:15 PM Krill: So if you want to stop the NUTA from growing too close and deciding you need to be killed at all costs, if it hasn't already, it might make sense to ask some of the other members about possible alliances
1:16 PM I don;t think either ZPV or sunrise are in great positions to help you out really
either now or in 50 turns
You have to have an exit strategy as well
1:17 PM Wouldn;t have thought a hardened diplomacy player wouldn;t have thought what would happen if the UTa succeded and killed the other 6
me: oh no i had thought about that
1:18 PM but i hadn't given much thought about what might happen if the UTA was defeated
(not that it is necessarily but obviously the opening round didn't go well)
i admit that was a mistake
1:19 PM probably at least in part attributed to not having played any mp civ
1:21 PM Krill: Well, that is something that you are probably going to want to consider. Not that I should really be saying that...
me: i am now considering it
1:22 PM so hypothetically speaking, what might you be looking for in an alliance?
1:24 PM Krill: Me? Teching partner, someone to slice and dice people with.
Which ironically favours you, who is my closest competitor
me: lol
1:25 PM that's not irony
that's kismet
but how do we extricate ourselves?
1:26 PM or do you not feel you are extricated?
Krill: congratulations, you made me look up a new word in the dictionary
me: haha
did i use it right?
i wasn't sure
Krill: it kinda fits
me: yeah i thought it was kind of a stretch
1:28 PM Krill: 2 of us? With 9 other players in the game? Those aren't exactly good odds atm.
me: sure
1:29 PM Krill: 11 players split inot 2 camps, is always a 6v5.
11 players split 3 ways usually comes out as a 4v4v3
me: but if you and i are kind of orchestrating things behind the scenes (as you have already admitted that you kind of ar
e)
1:30 PM then it shouldn't be too hard to ensure that the 6v5 falls the "right" way
Krill: We're the illuminati!
1:31 PM me: the tragedy of trying to do things like this is that it's kind of hard to "secretly" share techs

First off - it appears I never sent him that message that I posted a day or so ago. Luckily I posted it here because I just grabbed it and resent. The chat had some interesting talks about metagaming. I found it interesting where he said that he has everyone playing how he would want them to.

I wonder in how much of this chat I am being sincere. I do feel like I need to kind of explore other options, in case the G5 implodes. But I don't feel like throwing my colleagues under the bus. Still, I would like to avoid going down with the ship, if that makes sense.

I think an end-game of me ZPV and Krill could be interesting. Krill thinking that he could take either one of us to the finals, and ZPV and I trying to team up with each other to take out Krill. (And all of us saying everything to everyone and then eventually figuring out who is right).

Here's my current rankings. Feel free to give your own in the spoiler thread. Rather than go individually, I will go in groups.

Top Tier
Krill
regoarrarr
dsplaisted

A Step behind
ZPV (before losing 2 cities, he'd have been in the top tier - need to see how he handles it)
M-H (Plenty of wonders, but only 4 cities)

Middling
Shadyforce (he may get beaten up by ZPV)
League of Lin
Sunrise
Broker

Bottom tier
Ruff
Imhotep (both of them I think have concentrated too much on military at the cost of expansion / infrastructure. Even if they are able to convert that to a military edge, other civs will reap most of the benefits)

Heh - I just looked at the scores and they go in these groups exactly!