WW26: The Masquerade [Game Thread]

[Widow Edith]

widow edith

Love you too Will.

One thing I did reconsider is the thing about Rob asking to be replaced - I can agree with Bert that it's more of a null tell, considering that the game has been paused due to apparent "issues". Rob might ask to be replaced as scum if he was feeling unfairly screwed over by the GM. That said, he's always shown great will to win as scum, including the game where I was scum with him, so I think it would take quite a lot before he'd quit in disgust.

I disagree about using it as a village sign.

1) if he really wanted to quit he could have done so instead of making melodramatic posts.
2) swearwords and highemotions have been used by wolves before. For example by Qg where he even made a fake FY Serdoa post when Serdoa faked a daytime-kill. In this game Qg used swearwords and high emotions to sail to an easy wolf-victory.
3) You say it would take Rob a lot to quit in disgust but really what had happened here that would make him quit?

He had 1 argument with Rose where he left with Kiss my Ass and nothing more and he had the dispute with me where he used to attack me with an untruth. When I answered and showed him his mistake he said I told the GM to replace me. Was there any reason in it to quit? for sure not. Getting accused and defending is part and parcel of this game. Look above Will attacks me - shall I now run to the GM and say "Replace me I can't stand the game anymore"? Will we in future games as soon as someone gets attacked see massclaims of "I asked the GM to be replaced"-posts?
4) Did it not happen to you (and all those that take it at face-value) that it is very easy to fake that. "I PM-ed the GM to be replaced" while in reality he says "Don't take it seriously I'm just mindfucking the village".
5) A lot of his claimed frustration came that the village refused to lynch Muriel. Now we have a seer stating that Muriel is village what does that tell you about his frustration?

And since we have a seer-claim: Kate the waif

[Know-Nothing Jon]

You are right that Rob's targeting may have been poor in this game, Widow Edith. He stated early on night 1 that this would be a frustrating game [implied: because he couldn't lynch Muriel], so maybe it makes sense for that frustration to keep building. One thing that did strike me as a bit odd was the interlude where he was voting for Sister Mary on day one. After that didn't pan out, he said it was part of a plan to "put pressure" on Muriel or something like that, which didn't seem entirely genuine, as if he was trying to save face or something. I guess the central question about Rob is if his obsession with Muriel is real or feigned. Given that he does have a history of obsessing over certain targets, it's not so easy to say.

As for the seer claim, I am not surprised to see it. I noticed the same thing as Serdoa when I reread earlier - Saul's new stance on Muriel was abrupt and at the start of day 2. Also, Muriel doesn't claim mason, and there's already been a claim of one non-mason non-seer way of clearing yourself. So there was a reason I made my accusations against Saul before the night deadline but saved my actual top suspects for the end-of-night post.

This apparent overpowering of town might be part of the setup issues mentioned by the GM - who knows.

Kate The Waif

[Know-Nothing Jon]

*Fat Rose, sorry... that was entirely unintentional.

[Agnes The Orphan]

I disagree about using it as a village sign.

1) if he really wanted to quit he could have done so instead of making melodramatic posts.

We have the GM word that he can't, there are no replacements.

2) swearwords and highemotions have been used by wolves before. For example by Qg where he even made a fake FY Serdoa post when Serdoa faked a daytime-kill. In this game Qg used swearwords and high emotions to sail to an easy wolf-victory.

They have. They have also been used by villagers quite often - pindicater last game, pindicater every time Lewwyn (or LeChuck ) tries to lynch him, Bigger in WW17 etc.
Also, looking at when emotions have been used by wolves, I can't remember them being faked - I think of Ryan in WW20 (you mis-represent the importance of that episode - I don't think it had any real bearing on the game) who was going through personal issues, BRick in '24 where he got very angry, Q in WW18... - and I don't think of anyone actually faking emotion (???)

3) You say it would take Rob a lot to quit in disgust but really what had happened here that would make him quit?

He had 1 argument with Rose where he left with Kiss my Ass and nothing more and he had the dispute with me where he used to attack me with an untruth. When I answered and showed him his mistake he said I told the GM to replace me. Was there any reason in it to quit? for sure not. Getting accused and defending is part and parcel of this game. Look above Will attacks me - shall I now run to the GM and say "Replace me I can't stand the game anymore"? Will we in future games as soon as someone gets attacked see massclaims of "I asked the GM to be replaced"-posts?

Strawman.
No of course we won't - after WW15 did people start claiming devil?? After WW20, did people start spamming the thread with disjointed posts?
I'm not sure I disagree with the overrall argument - I too would be interested in his responses, but please don't post fallacies.
And also - Rob had been posting defences and arguing his position for quite a while. While I still want to hear his reactions

4) Did it not happen to you (and all those that take it at face-value) that it is very easy to fake that. "I PM-ed the GM to be replaced" while in reality he says "Don't take it seriously I'm just mindfucking the village". [/quote]

(Personal feeling) this is the absolute height of rudeness. You should never fake something emotional like that, and I would probably stop playing as a result.
People try to tread lightly around one anothers feelings (or at least they should, this has been ignored this game ) which is why emotional outbursts are generally treated well - take Pindicater last game - so to fake a request to leave like that is something I hold in contempt.
So I suppose my faith in humanity is whats making me see this as a village-lean

5) A lot of his claimed frustration came that the village refused to lynch Muriel. Now we have a seer stating that Muriel is village what does that tell you about his frustration?

It tells you nothing. Villagers get angry with one another, and frequently see obvi-wolves where none exist.
Just because a feeling is wrong, doesn't mean he can't get frustrated about it.

And notice no-one is saying he's confirmed a villager - just that it gives him a village lean.

@Percival, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts anyway - its hardly going to distract from THIS lynch () and it could generate some useful discussion in a rather stagnant thread.

[Agnes The Orphan]

You are right that Rob's targeting may have been poor in this game, Widow Edith. He stated early on night 1 that this would be a frustrating game [implied: because he couldn't lynch Muriel], so maybe it makes sense for that frustration to keep building. One thing that did strike me as a bit odd was the interlude where he was voting for Sister Mary on day one. After that didn't pan out, he said it was part of a plan to "put pressure" on Muriel or something like that, which didn't seem entirely genuine, as if he was trying to save face or something.

Yeah I agree, that whole period was a bit weird.

I guess the central question about Rob is if his obsession with Muriel is real or feigned. Given that he does have a history of obsessing over certain targets, it's not so easy to say.

As for the seer claim, I am not surprised to see it. I noticed the same thing as Serdoa when I reread earlier - Saul's new stance on Muriel was abrupt and at the start of day 2.
Please stop doing this.
I haven't tried to guess, and in the second case this actually impedes my knowing what you're talking about (until I realise what you meant below - still, please stop it).

[quote]Also, Muriel doesn't claim mason, and there's already been a claim of one non-mason non-seer way of clearing yourself. So there was a reason I made my accusations against Saul before the night deadline but saved my actual top suspects for the end-of-night post.

This apparent overpowering of town might be part of the setup issues mentioned by the GM - who knows.

Masons have kind of fallen out of fashion though.

[Know-Nothing Jon]

Masons have kind of fallen out of fashion though.

That may be, my point was just that there weren't many options left for how Saul would know Muriel was innocent.

[Fat Rose]

On the Rob-topic: To be honest Jon, I don't care at all what alignment he has. Even if he is the unkillable, unlynchable, werewolf-sniffing, unlimited vigilante and seer god of villagers I would still want to lynch him right now because he is constantly making me feel uneasy and irritated with his choleric outbursts when all that's actually done to him is people playing the game and pointing out lies or wrong facts.

That said, apart from my obvious dislike for his emotional outbursts, I'm also not certain what to make of his "replacement-request", especially as I always played under the impression that replacements are at the latest happening within the first 24 hours of the first day and after that you either play or you get modkilled. How should something like that even be handled? The replacement can certainly not answer us about the wrong facts or emotional outbursts of his predecessor. I don't believe that Rob (or anyone really) isn't aware of that issue. Therefore such a replacement-request at this time isn't worth much in my book, as he could be reasonably certain that it would not be fulfilled ever (if he made it for real in the first place).

But as someone else said: WIFOM. We can't know. And given what I wrote at the start of this post if we hadn't a seer-result, I definitely would vote for Rob now, no matter what.

@Agnes

Any reason to bold the parts you did in the quote from Jon?

[Muriel The Slow]

I actually think that Rob's frustration, if legit, is a village tell. We now know that on both days it was a race between two villagers. The wolves would have no reason to be frustrated when everything was going their way. It's of course still possible that he is a wolf playing the part of a frustrated villager. Regardless of all that, his game has been scummy and he is one of my top suspects to be a wolf. It will be interesting to see what he does now that I'm cleared, so hopefully he will be around and won't ragequit when he sees that we've been talking about him today. Jon, I don't know who you think Rob is, but I would not rely on past history in a game where the player's identity can't be confirmed.

[Muriel The Slow]

Please don't meta the reasons for the break. It won't help us, and the game master has clearly expressed that he doesn't want us to meta it.

[Sir Percival]

@Percival, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts anyway - its hardly going to distract from THIS lynch () and it could generate some useful discussion in a rather stagnant thread.

Quick phone post case, Half Nose Harry has been #2. his posts are predominately questions, very easy for scum to make because don't need to take a position