RB Pitboss #1 SPOILER - Hatshepsut / India

[Cyneheard]

And the lurkers assimilate another one

[Iamjohn]

mwahaha!

[regoarrarr]

Don't worry about it Dantski - thanks for your help and I'm sure this will make it more fun for you anyways!

[regoarrarr]

Email from Elkad (still getting used to handling this CivStats diplomacy feature)

I'd guess "unholy trade alliance"
Or maybe "united trade alliance"

anyway, with trading on, you join an alliance consisting of about half the civs, or you die.

So I'm onboard just keep trading, nothing else makes sense. (well, other than trying to swap sides, which I'm not inclined to do).

Horses city. I was planning to resettle it. However, I don't need to be so aggressive about it. I could put it 2W on the coast. It would keep the horses, pick up a fish, and concede the cows and a couple other tiles to you. Bit more of a good-neighbor solution.

My reply

Hey Elkad,

Maybe you're right it was united trade alliance and welcome aboard! I definitely am breathing a sigh of relief that you have decided not to swap sides. That was one thing I was worried about with a replacement player.

As I mentioned, I am on Guilds, which is due in 3 or 4 turns or so. What are you on now after Engineering? Broker is on Literature which I believe will be done whenever this turn processes, and I think he is planning on passing it out to the 4 of us.

I guess I'd be interested to know what your (and Sunrise's) opinion on tech path would be? One thought I had after Guilds would be to head down the Banking / Econ path. Or Gunpowder. And although Liberalism seems unlikely (since the NUTA already have Philo and Paper), Paper / Philo (Nationalism) / Education can be strong, and we want to make sure they can't sandbag Liberalism and get something too crazy.

And since you obviously have a lot more MP-Civ experience than me, how do you see this game going? As you have already mentioned in the email thread, with the tech pace going so fast, wars seem to not be very effective. Is there a tech path that would make a quick strike feasible? Or are we all rushing to space / mechs / modern armor?

Though I suppose that could even be a more generic question - how do you see this game proceeding? Do you think it will continue as a 6v5 for awhile? I've looked for ways that the alliance structure could be shaken up, but it seems difficult since anyone that breaks will automatically be on the "outside" of both groups. Any thoughts / ideas?

As for the horse city, 2W on the coast sounds great. That's where I'd have preferred it in the first place and I've got no problems with that. I can't remember if you have horse somewhere else or are getting it from someone, but I think I have a spare horse if you need one.

And I also had a question about group emails through the Civstats interface. Is that possible? One thing that we had been doing was sending out group emails between the 5 of us to try and iron out details - can we do that through CivStats or how would you recommend we handle that.

Talk to you later

[Dantski]

Since its not exactly a terrible secret, it seems Krill invented the UTA's name (uber tech alliance)

[regoarrarr]

Email from mh

Hi,
well, the game is back up and I am back from my trip and going through the motions to get accustomed to the situation again.
I was a bit surprised to find that after your last letter, your warrior Bob continued his travel inside our territory.
We assume that it was an oversight, since it was a long (real) time since the last letter.
We believe that those little things should be avoided while we are starting to figure out where old and new allies stay.
So please move Bob SE next turn.
FYI: There is not free passage south or west around our territory.


Regards
mh & Kodii

My reply

Ah that is good to know. I apologize - I did notice that he was still in your territory but was assuming that he could make it into the clear by moving SW, away from your visible cities. Per our agreement, I will move SE next turn.

So, having said that, would you be interested in revisiting our agreement? I believe when I first initiated the "no-scouting" clause of our agreement, I was at war with someone who was (at least nominally) an ally of yours, and could not risk him being passed scouting info. Now, while some tensions remain on several fronts, there is at least not outright war, so I would be willing to reconsider.

I just worry that we have kind of gotten off to a rocky start (which I have probably complicated by continuing to unintentionally violate the no-scouting clause). And while that may make sense in our current UTA / non-UTA environment, may not make sense in the game going forward, however that may shake out. As 2 of the top powers (at least score-wise), I feel like it is in our best interests to cooperate, especially since as I believe you have mentioned, we are far away geographically and not really a military threat to each other.

What are your thoughts?

[regoarrarr]

Okay some diplo

Email from Elkad

Sorry it took so long to get back to you. One of my other games is literally taking 2 hours to play a turn (rifleman wars, 20 cities to micro, posting screenshots to allies, etc), so while this one was paused I ignored it a bit.

The only way a war really accomplishes anything is either 3v1 so you can flood him, or a massive upgrade/draft progam at a couple of the big combat power jumps (cuirs, rifles).

You can maybe sneak in a good amphibious war at astro.

Once railroads are in, it gets impossible to do much more than raze targets of opportunity, so borders get pretty set then.

Chat with Elkad

(09:57) me: hey - there?
(09:58) Elkad: hi, y eah
(09:58) me: hey - it's regoarrarr from the rb pitboss game
(09:58) Elkad: I was actually finally replying to your civstats message from 4 days ago..
(09:58) me: ah ok
(09:58) me: i was wanting to touch base about tech path
(09:58) me: broker told me he is moving on to paper
(09:59) Elkad: yeah
(09:59) me: but i didn't know if you were going for that or nto
(09:59) Elkad: no. theres a horde of triremes off my coast, I started optics. I don't want galleys jumping over
(09:59) me: excellent
(10:00) Elkad: need the caravels and the visibility both
(10:00) me: what's your eta?
(10:01) Elkad: uh.. 5t? don't remember actually
(10:01) me: cool
(10:01) Elkad: seems really fast whatever it is
(10:01) me: is that at 100%?
(10:02) Elkad: yeah. I'm in 6 games right now, and 5 of them have double tech costs..
(10:02) Elkad: and deity maintainance
(10:03) Elkad: 4 of them have trading on, was an attempt to slow down the pace
(10:03) Elkad: didn't really work
(10:03) me: yeah
(10:03) me: the pace seems real fast in this game
(10:03) Elkad: 5th is double costs, diety, and no trading at all
(10:03) Elkad: but it's on like turn7
(10:03) me: yikes
(10:04) Elkad: anyway. EPs are big. people need to make sure they don't let enemies get 3-1 ratios and start getting visibility and such
(10:05) Elkad: wars are.... non-productive at best
(10:05) Elkad: most of my games seem to have 3-4 different blocks of allies this early, but even then if you get in a war wtih one, the other 2 just tech past you
(10:06) me: yeah
(10:06) Elkad: you can have a war at knights (except for the hordes of jumbos on this map)
(10:06) me: right
(10:06) Elkad: drafted rifles if you get there first
(10:06) me: i'll have guilds in 3 i think
(10:07) Elkad: astro amphibious wars (or raze and pillage fests more likely)
(10:07) me: so where do you see this game going?
(10:07) me: space?
(10:07) Elkad: maybe eventually
(10:07) Elkad: but we sure won't beeline it
(10:07) Elkad: space just stops the mopping up
(10:08) Elkad: if you head straight there, someone with artillery and advanced flight will kill you
(10:08) me: right
(10:08) me: so where should we go next?
(10:08) me: my thought was banking / econ
(10:08) me: especially since we have someone (sunrise) tha tis going all gold
(10:08) Elkad: medium-term goal is rifles
(10:09) me: okay
(10:10) me: so that needs Paper (doing), PP, RP, Banking and Gunpowder
(10:10) Elkad: if we can get rifles-nat, before them, we can draft into the ground and win some wars
(10:10) me: yeah i've got a globe coming up
(10:10) me: right philo-nat are also needed
(10:12) Elkad: if they go for cavs, rifles stop them fine

And finally, an email from me to the rest of the UTA to talk tech paths

Okay.

Time to get back in the swing of things in this game. We need to coordinate tech paths. Elkad and I chatted a bit this morning and this is what we came up with. Medium-term tech path should be rifles. With drafted rifles, we have a possible window of opportunity, and at least we can stop cuirassiers if they go the mounted path.

So, for that to happen we need (all beakers in normal costs so I believe multiply by 1.5):
Guilds (1000 - due in 3 by me)
Paper (600 - Broker starting it - I think he said ETA is 8t)

Banking (700)
Printing Press (1600)
Gunpowder (1200)
Rep. Parts (1800)
Rifling (2400)

Additional techs that could be useful
Education (1800)
Economics (1400)

Elkad is on Optics (600) to deal with some shadyforce Triremes.

I know sunrise is running all gold, but he doesn't have enough to feed both Elkad and I. Lins - how are you guys doing? I know that your economy was pretty tanked with the Krill war but are things turning up now that you have a NAP? So my suggestion would be something along the lines of

Sunrise and the Lins continue to feed Elkad and I. Both of them focus on gold buildings (we'll have Grocers soon). Broker continues to run his own research and improve his economy. Elkad and I run turns of gold if/when needed.

We'll want to hold off on Gunpowder till after Education (for the 20% bonus), if we can, and Education also unlocks Econ. PP can come right after Paper, but Rep Parts need banking.

Elkad and Broker both seem to have a scientist at some point on the way - so if we can use that to do Education, that frees up Econ and Gunpowder. I can do Banking next (in 3 turns) and we can regroup a bit after that to see who needs to do what

Thoughts?

[regoarrarr]

Okay - for reference this is the amount of beakers a great scientist gives you in a bulb.

Great Scientist is 1500 + 3 * the total population of your civ. All other GPs are 1000 + 2 * total pop. That's normal speed, adjust as appropriate for others. City doesn't matter.
Forward Message

[regoarrarr]

Email to Yaz

Hey Yazilliclick!

As promised last night, here is that email recap, at least as far as I see it.

Early in the game, the Lin team (Dreylin / Kalin) and Sunrise approached me with an offer to make an early trade where we would each research a different early tech and trade them. It was eventually expanded to include Broker and ZPV (now Elkad), and we researched Alphabet, Monarchy, Math, HBR, and Iron Working.

Your predecessors lobbied hard to be a part of that tech trading group (researching Metal Casting I think?) but for whatever reason were turned down. At this point, looking back, I think that was a mistake on our part but at this point what's done is done.

So while we (the 5 of us) did not really intend to turn this into some sort of grand alliance, the other 6 powers all banded together into an alliance and started their own tech trading. That in turn, forced us (who have been called the UTA I guess) even closer and it kind of just started snowballing from there.

Our civs do have a history of working togehter, even despite that. About 50 turns or so ago, even as tensions were mounting, we agreed to a temporary open borders which I paid for with Sailing. So any trips you take on galleys you can think of me and my hard working scientists :-)

But at this point we're kind of "stuck" in a 6v5 situation. But 2 of your 6 players (Ruff / TAD and Imhotep) are kind of a step below the rest of the other civs, so it's pretty even.

Like I said in-game last night, I would be up for trying to mix things up. It seems like it would be to the advantage of some of the teams up at the top of the scoreboard (like us) to band together to weed out some of the "lesser" teams. If we stopped giving them techs, then we could strike when at a tech / military advantage.

For instance, I would be interested in Philosophy which you bulbed a while ago. I know that you may be targeting Liberalism, and I would be willing to consider some sort of no-Lib clause.

The only other thing is that, as you've probably figured out is that you and the Lins were at war a few turns ago which went pretty well for you. I don't have visibility on what exactly happened but it ended with you getting a city (Lins Lost I think?) and I think you guys have a pretty long NAP.

Hoepfully that helps some - feel free to ask any questions you might have, and I'll try to answer as best I can

Trying to downplay Krill's leadership in teh NUTA with the hopes that it will kind of fall apart. I do need to spend some time thinking about this game and a mid-term plan.

[regoarrarr]

Email from Yaz

Thanks for the write up, helps as a nice summary to what's going on.
Got to chat to a couple others in game and can certainly get a sense
that people are looking for different/better options these days for
alliances. Have had a couple 'feelers' sent out about teams though
some are pretty good at trying to hide that's what they're doing I
think you're right though, the two of us are probably in pretty good
positions to help each other out something to keep in mind. As I said
though I need a bit of time to get into the game a bit more, still
haven't even spoken to everybody.

As to philosophy I'll keep it in mind you're interested but not ready
to throw it on the table yet unless there was a pretty sweet deal.
You're right lib would be a nice grab and don't have much reason to
trust anybody yet to not turn around and stab me by taking it if I
traded it.

I will reply in a sec. Also - Broker has been having some interesting conversations with m-h. He forwarded me the emails. I am assuming that he has posted them in his spoiler thread, but if he hasn't, let me know and I'll put them in here.