WW27 Game Thread: Once there were 12

[Serdoa]

I didn't see any strong or even non-weak cases yesterday, so if I didn't comment on your cases Serdoa that was probably why. My comment would just have been noncommittal noise. With cases like that I prefer to let the accused answer for himself. I think Jkaen did, and Gazglum was sleeping.

I guess my point got lost: It is not that you didn't comment especially to my case. It is that I feel that you and zak both have not even bothered to look at other targets. You were fine with the lynch on c_h and given my past experience with you two that is hard to believe if you are village, as this lynch was built on 1 (!) sentence that you considered bad play. I mean honestly novice, you tell me you didn't bother to look at other cases as you felt they were weak but the case you voted upon isn't anything but weak itself.

Again, I'm not taking issue with you not commenting other cases or waiting for others to reply. I'm taking issue with you letting the lynch on c_h run its course, even helping it along, without considering other cases.

[zakalwe]

MJW could be scum, but if he's not, Azarius looks a bit shady for post #52.

I don't get that part of post #62 zak. Azarius vote in #52 for MJW because he felt that MJWs thinking makes no sense. The thinking he talks about here is MJWs explanation why zak should never have suggested a no-lynch. Why would Azarius be shady for that if MJW was not scum?

Either I'm missing some nuance about exactly what you're asking here, or your question is oddly phrased.

Either way; if MJW is not scum, then he is innocent, and Azarius was attacking an innocent player for attacking another innocent player. So my thinking was that Azarius could be scum who was waiting for two townies to go at each other and then vocally picking a side. Ichabod's active/reactive theorem might be applicable, too.

I did read your cases yesterday, but I didn't have time to comment on everything, as I was short on keyboard time. I considered Gazglum in particular, but ultimately it felt a bit too tenuous. As did my own case on Azarius, for that matter.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Well I switched off Zak after I read C_H's (4!!!) posts and found that they did not have much content at all. He didn't really do anything. Being unware of the timezone issue made me very suspicious of C_H not defending himself at all. The point that Az made about C_H's vote being a joke vote sealed the deal. Effectively not voting at all during the first day is unacceptable.

The people who are don't like are the pack of lurkers (including Mattimeo) and Zak. Zak seems to have problems of being able to post content. What bumps him up is him even thinking that the village should not lynch the first day. It just feels extremely wrong; like KFC's double downer. I might have been more motivated to push him if someone other than Jowy was on him. But after the last werewolf game I felt that we would not have enough influence to lynch Zak.

[Qgqqqqq]

I read your cases, but ultimately they didn't feel like they were very strong, and I didn't comment because I was asleep and they had dropped off the radar.
The stuff that jkaen and gazglum have said there, like how he's often a mislynch is a common reaction, and gazglum in particular seemed to be voting matt more for how he was seeming on what was generally an easy target, rather then dismissing the case out of hand - he seems to be dismissing matts jumping on it as taking advantage of it. I think the way he's been playing is scummy, but I don't see his dismissing that train as so. Jkaen feels village from his posts, I feel like he's contributed a fair bit, but I'll reread.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Oh, Jowy... The fact that Zak and I switched off to C_H together would only be suspicious if Mattimeo was a wolf too...unlikely. This would mean that three wolfs were involved in my "thought-crime" attack against Zak.

[Qgqqqqq]

MJW, apart from the no lynch discussion (which we can stop anytime now), how do you find zak scummy? What do you mean by saying he doesn't post content?
Because I don't see anything inherently wrong with his proposal, and I didn't think you did at first either, so it seems like you're just using that to justify your obsession with him, giving you a safe vote that people can just ignore because its totally meta-based.

[MJW (ya that one)]

MJW, apart from the no lynch discussion (which we can stop anytime now), how do you find zak scummy? What do you mean by saying he doesn't post content?
Because I don't see anything inherently wrong with his proposal, and I didn't think you did at first either, so it seems like you're just using that to justify your obsession with him, giving you a safe vote that people can just ignore because its totally meta-based.

You can check out my earlier attacks against Zak to see why not-lynching for town is very bad.

Zak is posting content but I don't get a villager lean from it. Are you talking about my last post? In my last post I said that C_H was not posting content.

[zakalwe]

MJW, this continued spam about the no lynch suggestion is anti-town. You've made your stance clear, and I have in return explained my views as thoroughly as can be expected. If you have other points against me, bring them up, and I'll address them, but give it a rest with the thought crime.

Also, you said "Zak seems to have problems of being able to post content" just four posts back. That's probably what Q is referring to...

I've done a quick reskim and two posts that stand out as strange/opportunistic are Mattimeo's post #75 and Jowy's post #92. Both seem to break with the natural "flow" of the game.

Azza hopped on the Mattimeo wagon with a very contrived reason -- allegedly not being dishonest about his self-preservation vote for MJW -- as his final post of the day, and Jowy suddenly made a complete reversal on me and decided that I was our best bet, on dubious grounds.

Azza's post in particular is very weak, because Mattimeo didn't actually need to save himself when he voted for MJW, as he only had two votes then. Only after that did Jkaen vote for Mattimeo, which was then followed by Azza's vote. So if Mattimeo needed to save himself, it was mainly because Azza turned it into a self-fulfilling prophesy.

[zakalwe]

I've done a quick reskim and two posts that stand out as strange/opportunistic are Mattimeo's post #75 and Jowy's post #92.

To be clear, I meant Azza's post #75, where he voted for Mattimeo.

[novice]

You also meant Jowy's post 94.

Jowy's attack on Zak was a bit misguided IMO, as I pointed out immediately. Not sure if scummy.

Agreed on Azza, his Mattimeo justification was odd, and it's also a bit strange that he chastises the CH lynch when he himself wanted to pressure CH earlier on day one. (As already pointed out by... Q, perhaps?)

@Serdoa: I've looked at cases, probed a bit, and not commented on stuff that I felt other people were better off answering. I haven't built any cases as I haven't seen much to build one on.

I could comment on the critique of the CH lynch but I feel Q answered that pretty well.