WW27 Game Thread: Once there were 12

[zakalwe]

The point was that Ichabod is viewed as a strong player, and it's hypocritical to say it's a wolf tell on me if its not on him. Unless you think it's really out of character for me, which it isn't, because I homed in on you in the same way on Day 1 of the Futurama game when you were Wolfy McWolf Wolf.

Ok, I really didn't associate that kind of play style with you, and I certainly think you have a different baseline than Ichabod, but maybe you have a point.

[Azza]

Q, I feel your attack on MJW is because he's being anti-town rather than scummy. If this is an incorrect assumption, could you please explain how his play indicates he's scum rather than just crazy old MJW?

No, that's not what I was getting at. In general, MJW says weird meta stuff, and makes odd votes, but generally he does contribute. He does give his own thoughts on a bunch of issues, and IMO he does push his suspicions and thoughts on a bunch of people.
But I'm not seeing that at all this game. What I see as suspicious is that he seems to be using his weird meta as a smoke screen for posting a lot, but nor actually contributing. The whole fixation with zaks opening post, is something I feel he is using to allow himself to sit back and not contribute, not actually scumhunt. The same thing with the "I'll not help until matt turns up" posts, I feel he is deliberately avoiding contributing as a player.
I suppose the difference lies in my perceived intention of the action - the whole thing looks deliberate, unlike his normal spam, and I feel his contributing less then normal is a scum factor, not just MJW playing badly.

To me, it feels extremely similar to the way he posted in the masquerade game where I wanted to lynch him for being anti-town (even after he was as good as confirmed town, I still wanted to lynch him, but the whole Muriel thing overrode that).

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. The main reason I'm avoiding jumping on you at this point is because I always think you're scummy, so I'm not confident in my read here.

[Mattimeo]

what are your thoughts, mattimeo?

There was a very nice over-extended spam-fest about something not even relevant to this game. Well over what was necessary to dismiss it as irrelevant. MJW gets some slack for it being his usual modus operandi to do exactly that (waffle on about useless shit the entire time), and no-one else was really involved (other than defending against the whiffle, or attacking based on the fact of whiffle, which doesn't actually care about the content, just he existence).
A quality pile formed on the new person because he's new and wasn't talking much. Then stuck around, because Lynch All Lurkers, especially new ones we're attempting to encourage to play here again.
Serdoa did his usual "post paragraphs it's actually impossible to disagree with without being of infirm mental capacities". And was killed for it. What a surprise.

Interestingly, Azza's posts effectively consisted of nothing that wasn't meta advice, or attacking lurkers for lurking, before turning violently on me as a wagon formed, eclipsing the MJW train. Around the same time as Gazglum, actually. So I see your case, novice, but (to me) Gaz's reasoning looks like actual attempts at reasoning, while Azza just looks to be hooking a ride on a convenient wagon.
Only thing I can see in his favour is the over-the-top reaction to the lynch, but that's pretty easy to fake, or could just as easily be real emotion from scum - I know I always feel the need to speak up when the town's being bone-headedly stupid, even when it's actually helpful for my victory conditions to let such actions continue.

[Mattimeo]

Well, everything is finally working...

I think we have to kill Mattimeo today if he does'nt begin to post crap

Well, I was going to post something useful, but I guess I'll have to restrict myself to 'crap' now

The people who are don't like are the pack of lurkers (including Mattimeo) and Zak.

And I finally get a mention as part of the lurker pack? I thought you'd forgotten about me all of the last day, talking about policy lynching people who'd posted more than I had for lurking...

Well losing 2 key power roles this early sucks pretty badly, interseting they went for Serdoa.

Interesting? What are the other targets? novice, I suppose. zak would be similarly high priority, but I'd also think he'd actually be easier to lynch than Serdoa given this D1. The rest of us? Maybe Gazglum would also be worth a kill in a vacuum. Or MJW if you think removing the annoyance is worth also removing the distraction. The rest of us you need a reason, and you don't generally have one N1.

I’ve said a lot of times that I don’t think scum are the ones talking wild theories or super lurking on Day 1, they’re more likely to play like Mattimeo, Serdoa or Novice were – chiming in without rocking the boat. You may disagree with that, but I have form arguing that in previous games.

quoted in the same post:
[quote='Serdoa' pid='409503' dateline='1377617891']
That's pretty much one of the worst posts I've read so far in this game (together with Jkaens). Gazglum completely ignores what several people have listed as reason to vote for MJW, which is exactly that his behaviour in this game is NOT similar to his normal behaviour. Now I don't say he has to agree with that assessment. But not arguing that point, not even mentioning it, is scummy. It might very well be that MJW is a villager, but Gazglums defense here reads more like a wolf finding an easy point to make, hoping to earn village brownie points.

Direct attacks like that aren't 'rocking the boat' now?

[quote='Azza' pid='410149' dateline='1377738614']
For someone unlikely to be on at the deadline, it seemed like a clear self-defense vote disguised as scum hunting.

...there was an attempt to make it look anything like scum-hunting?
Certainly wasn't any attempt to pretend I was scum hunting D1. More putting my vote where it would do the least harm, given a need to actually put it somewhere. I seem to recall already spelling that out in justification, too.

[Mattimeo]

...and apparently I fail at quoting

intended post:

Well, everything is finally working...

I think we have to kill Mattimeo today if he does'nt begin to post crap

Well, I was going to post something useful, but I guess I'll have to restrict myself to 'crap' now

The people who are don't like are the pack of lurkers (including Mattimeo) and Zak.

And I finally get a mention as part of the lurker pack? I thought you'd forgotten about me all of the last day, talking about policy lynching people who'd posted more than I had for lurking...

Well losing 2 key power roles this early sucks pretty badly, interseting they went for Serdoa.

Interesting? What are the other targets? novice, I suppose. zak would be similarly high priority, but I'd also think he'd actually be easier to lynch than Serdoa given this D1. The rest of us? Maybe Gazglum would also be worth a kill in a vacuum. Or MJW if you think removing the annoyance is worth also removing the distraction. The rest of us you need a reason, and you don't generally have one N1.

I’ve said a lot of times that I don’t think scum are the ones talking wild theories or super lurking on Day 1, they’re more likely to play like Mattimeo, Serdoa or Novice were – chiming in without rocking the boat. You may disagree with that, but I have form arguing that in previous games.

quoted in the same post:

That's pretty much one of the worst posts I've read so far in this game (together with Jkaens). Gazglum completely ignores what several people have listed as reason to vote for MJW, which is exactly that his behaviour in this game is NOT similar to his normal behaviour. Now I don't say he has to agree with that assessment. But not arguing that point, not even mentioning it, is scummy. It might very well be that MJW is a villager, but Gazglums defense here reads more like a wolf finding an easy point to make, hoping to earn village brownie points.

Direct attacks like that aren't 'rocking the boat' now?

For someone unlikely to be on at the deadline, it seemed like a clear self-defense vote disguised as scum hunting.

...there was an attempt to make it look anything like scum-hunting?
Certainly wasn't any attempt to pretend I was scum hunting D1. More putting my vote where it would do the least harm, given a need to actually put it somewhere. I seem to recall already spelling that out in justification, too.

[Mattimeo]

Q, I feel your attack on MJW is because he's being anti-town rather than scummy. If this is an incorrect assumption, could you please explain how his play indicates he's scum rather than just crazy old MJW?

In the absence of an any actual scum-tells, why not default to anti-town tells? Even if someone generally gives off such tells, I'd still say killing them is better than killing someone who is likely to contribute usefully in the future.

[Gazglum]

quoted in the same post:

That's pretty much one of the worst posts I've read so far in this game (together with Jkaens). Gazglum completely ignores what several people have listed as reason to vote for MJW, which is exactly that his behaviour in this game is NOT similar to his normal behaviour. Now I don't say he has to agree with that assessment. But not arguing that point, not even mentioning it, is scummy. It might very well be that MJW is a villager, but Gazglums defense here reads more like a wolf finding an easy point to make, hoping to earn village brownie points.

Direct attacks like that aren't 'rocking the boat' now?

Meh, not so much by Serdoa's standards. And for all his sound and fury, he ended up voting Jkaen and then didn't make much of an actual push to get other people to join him there. I was thinking of the number of his posts more, and the impact they ended up having on the day. But fair point.

[Azza]

For someone unlikely to be on at the deadline, it seemed like a clear self-defense vote disguised as scum hunting.

...there was an attempt to make it look anything like scum-hunting?
Certainly wasn't any attempt to pretend I was scum hunting D1. More putting my vote where it would do the least harm, given a need to actually put it somewhere. I seem to recall already spelling that out in justification, too.

I didn't reread your post, I was going off what I thought I'd remembered. However upon rereading, it looks like the same sort of anti-town = scum fallacy that others (notably Q) are using. So I'm not going to withdraw my accusation.

[Azza]

Q, I feel your attack on MJW is because he's being anti-town rather than scummy. If this is an incorrect assumption, could you please explain how his play indicates he's scum rather than just crazy old MJW?

In the absence of an any actual scum-tells, why not default to anti-town tells? Even if someone generally gives off such tells, I'd still say killing them is better than killing someone who is likely to contribute usefully in the future.

Because bad town play doesn't indicate that they're scum, and the goal of the game is to catch the scum, not punish bad town play.

[Mattimeo]

it looks like the same sort of anti-town = scum fallacy that others (notably Q) are using.

Anti-town != scum.

However, anti-town == worth voting for, given lack of better scum candidates.