WW27 Game Thread: Once there were 12

[Jowy]

Good job guys Never been happier to be wrong. I'm glad I made the hard gameplay choice rather than wussy out and leave it up to the dice.
MJW, you are dead, but I'll explain how the pieces fill the puzzle now. It's from my point of view btw.
Gives strong town lean to: Zak, Novice, Q
Matt and Jkaen already had a town lean from me.
This leaves Azza, Azarius and Gazglum, which two are wolves.

This is if there was no sacrifices made by the wolves to gain credit.
It's a possibility considering how MJW didn't exactly have much longevity, but I don't really believes a sacrifice was made.

[novice]

Azarius - Neutral leaning to town. Don't have much to say about him - he's been quietish, but reasonable seeming. No scum tells after that post I talked abotu Day 1, and that was pretty weak anyway. Probably deserves another look sometime.

I have to do my own review on Azarius, but if your description of "quietish, but reasonable seeming" is correct that's a bit of a warning light.

Have you read this, Gazglum? What do you think?

[Gazglum]

Azarius - Neutral leaning to town. Don't have much to say about him - he's been quietish, but reasonable seeming. No scum tells after that post I talked abotu Day 1, and that was pretty weak anyway. Probably deserves another look sometime.

I have to do my own review on Azarius, but if your description of "quietish, but reasonable seeming" is correct that's a bit of a warning light.

Have you read this, Gazglum? What do you think?

I'm going to need to go back from scratch and reread knowing MJW's alignment, but yes, Azarius is a question mark now. You and Zak and Q and Jkaen all look fairly good now (Q the most, Zak the least trustworthy for me), and it looks like Jowy righted his ship somewhat last night, though I'm still unsure on him.

My gut is still that Mattimeo is bad, but I'd need to think about if the lynch votes make sense if it was wolf vs wolf. If Mattimeo is a wolf though, then the third wolf would have realised that someone was going down anyway, so might have suddenly jumped in full throated support onto one of the candidates. So I'm less sure than Jowy that no sacrifice was made.

MJW stressing that he was being forced to defence vote Mattimeo is a point towards Matt's innocence though, as it reads like MJW disavowing responsibililty for a mislynch.

So yes, maybe Azarius or Azza. Or maybe my instincts were right and it is Jowy or Matt - Jowy's turnaround could have been due to coaching from the QT. I'll have to rethink for now.

[Qgqqqqq]

MJW: 5 (zakalwe; novice; JKaen; Qgqqqq; Jowy)
Mattimeo: 4 (MJW; Azza; Azarius; Gazglum)
Azza: 1 (Mattimeo)

This should be correct.
Edit:Looking back, Jowy's vote looks worse then I thought - I thought he was breaking a tie rather then just sealing the deal (he changed it from 4:3->5:3 rather then 4:4->5:4).
Still, he definitely looks better off that vote.

I'd still like to understand what this string of posts means, Jack, as it still doesn't really make sense to me:

Novice, looks like you get the lesser of two evils choice to make

What we said to Jowy about picking one of the leading candidates, even if they're not your favourite.

What we said to Jowy about picking one of the leading candidates, even if they're not your favourite.

Oh, no I misread. I mean Jowy should...and he won't. Shit.

Sorry. he's voted mJW too. I'm just skim reading from the last tally

I think this lynch makes novice, jkaen, zak, and Jowy look better. I do think its unlikely that they're all village though.
Of those I think novices vote is the strongest, as he took it from a case that wasn't getting much traction and mostly forgotten to one of the contenders for the lynch. After that I'd say Jkaens is slightly suspicious because he could've just parked it there from back at the beginning and he didn't have a chance to swap off. Still, I read him as townish before this, and if you're going to park, doing it on a teamate isn't the best.
Which leaves zak and Jowy.
Zak's post onto MJW was a typical shadow vote, jumping off azza because he didn't have traction to join novice. I think he pushed it from 3:2:1... to 4:2:1.... What I dislike most was a) the low personal investment of just shadowing novice which would've left him very open to switching off and b) that he changes not a page after posting a (short) attack on a bunch of people not including MJW. What counts in his favor was that this was rather early (okay, 2 hrs ish before lynch) and that while he was online throughout he didn't switch off, even when he could've.
The other is Jowy. Jowy also pushed it from 4:3 to 5:3, so the effect on the lynch was the same, which is sort of to strengthen it. I dislike this vote because it looks a bit like scum jumping on when its already decided (this was like 11minutes to the lynch) for the credit. I also believe (though I'd have to check...) that Jowy had attacked matt earlier in the game but not MJW, which seems weird, like he just chose it on a whim. What put him ahead of matt for a lynch Jowy? What I like about this post is it did seal the deal on MJW.

So if there's a scum on MJW, then I'd put it Jowy>zak>Jkaen. Having written this though, I feel less strongly that there was one on MJW at all, it grew late enough.

Good job guys Never been happier to be wrong. I'm glad I made the hard gameplay choice rather than wussy out and leave it up to the dice.
MJW, you are dead, but I'll explain how the pieces fill the puzzle now. It's from my point of view btw.

The bolded part seems weird, given who you voted. What did you mean?

So yes, maybe Azarius or Azza. Or maybe my instincts were right and it is Jowy or Matt - Jowy's turnaround could have been due to coaching from the QT. I'll have to rethink for now.

Remember there's probably two wolves left. (This looks like you are thinking of one left)

[Mattimeo]

Good job guys Never been happier to be wrong. I'm glad I made the hard gameplay choice rather than wussy out and leave it up to the dice.
MJW, you are dead, but I'll explain how the pieces fill the puzzle now. It's from my point of view btw.

The bolded part seems weird, given who you voted. What did you mean?

From his posts, I'd assumed that the MJW vote was a 'lesser of two evils' situation; that he didn't have much interest in killing any of the people on the block at the time, but felt that MJW would do the least harm when he showed up town. And was wrong about MJW showing up town.

MJW: 5 (zakalwe; novice; JKaen; Qgqqqq; Jowy)
Mattimeo: 4 (MJW; Azza; Azarius; Gazglum)
Azza: 1 (Mattimeo)

This should be correct.
Edit:Looking back, Jowy's vote looks worse then I thought - I thought he was breaking a tie rather then just sealing the deal (he changed it from 4:3->5:3 rather then 4:4->5:4).
Still, he definitely looks better off that vote.

If he'd voted for me instead, would have been 4:4 -> coin flip (or actually, me dead since Gaz got up early enough to vote).

Jowy's moved up to reasonably definite town, for me.

Really not liking this:

Zak, please switch. Trust your Glumbuddy.

[Gazglum]

Way to blow my secret identity TIM.

My posts were a confused mess, as I had literally just rolled out of bed to see my favoured lynches slipping away with minutes to spare. I read the lynch count here:

Day end in half an hour.

Vote Count:

MJW: 4 (zakalwe; novice; JKaen; Qgqqqq)
Mattimeo: 3 (MJW; Azza; Azarius)
Jowy: 1 (Gazglum)
novice: 1 (Jowy)

But I was in a rush and misread it as Novice voting Jowy instead of the other way round, so I told Novice he needed to pick one of the top targets (which I thought were now 4/4 after my vote). Then I realised it was Jowy voting Novice, so HE had to pick a top two target, and I thought he wouldn't because I didn't trust him and he didn't last time. I was in a bit of a flap.

THEN I realised that Jowy had already picked a top two candidate, which I had missed because it was after the vote count, so the whole question was moot and it was 5v4. Unless one of MJW voters switched, and I asked Zak to because he'd just responded to me so I knew he was around. Then the bell rang and I actually went and found a pair of pants to put on.

I know there are presumably two wolves left, I just am definitely entertaining other suspects now than just Mattimeo and Jowy. I admit it's pretty unlikely that we could have just spent a day with all three wolves vying for top lynch spot.

Mattimeo, I can see why you, especially, don't like me trying to pull Zak onto you but I really preferred you to MJW. Whether you and him were both scum, or I am having a bad game, I guess will become clear in time.

[Azza]

I'll put my vote on Azza for now. There's his post yesterday against Mattimeo, being quiet today, and justifying his final vote by elimination, with a kind of argument that is very easy to manipulate into yielding the result that he wants. And it's a logical alternative to Mattimeo, since they've been accusing each other.

Didn't like this post. Waited til I wasn't going to be online before pushing a case against me, and suggested I'd been unusually quiet which I'd strongly disagree with.

[Jowy]

The other is Jowy. Jowy also pushed it from 4:3 to 5:3, so the effect on the lynch was the same, which is sort of to strengthen it. I dislike this vote because it looks a bit like scum jumping on when its already decided (this was like 11minutes to the lynch) for the credit. I also believe (though I'd have to check...) that Jowy had attacked matt earlier in the game but not MJW, which seems weird, like he just chose it on a whim. What put him ahead of matt for a lynch Jowy? What I like about this post is it did seal the deal on MJW.

BS :P Would have been a 4-4 tie without my vote, and a 5-4 to lynch Matt if I had voted for Matt.

Here are my thoughts on Matt from when novice and Azza jumped on him:

I've got mixed feelings on Matt. He's got an attitude problem, he hasn't pursued any cases and has played a reactionary game. I wasn't a fan of the vote on MJW, due to the reason being that MJW is anti-town, though Matt did mention that he had nothing solid to go with and only voted because no-lynch was not an option. At least the MJW vote is significantly more townish than if he had voted for CH, who turned out villager and was the one he was racing against. We've quite firmly seen that the majority thinks that players should answer questions that they are asked of, and Matt does this. On one hand he is doing what the players want and not being evasive, but on the other hand spending all his online time on questions casts a bad light on him because he's not scum hunting. As for his answers, I like them. There are some Day 1 stuff that I disagree with, but I didn't find any of his answers scummy. I think all in all, he's got a slight village lean in my eyes.

Whoops, forgot to say that I believe his lack of time and his attitude to be real and not faked.

Voted for MJW because it would give the village more information. I was tempted to just make it a dice roll so I don't have to take personal responsibility if the lynched rolls villager, but that would have been selfish and not a good gameplay choice at all.

I'll go with MJW, though a dice roll might be fair as well. Thing is, if MJW turns out to be a wolf, it would fill a lot of pieces in the puzzle.

Good job guys Never been happier to be wrong. I'm glad I made the hard gameplay choice rather than wussy out and leave it up to the dice.
MJW, you are dead, but I'll explain how the pieces fill the puzzle now. It's from my point of view btw.

The bolded part seems weird, given who you voted. What did you mean?

I had a slight village lean on MJW and a scum lean on you, zak and novice. MJW was a wolf and you guys just earned a strong village lean. I didn't mean to say that I was wrong about everything.. I made the right choice in the end, and I was right about Matt (if I thought he was scum, I would have voted for him instead).

[Qgqqqqq]

...
The bolded part seems weird, given who you voted. What did you mean?

From his posts, I'd assumed that the MJW vote was a 'lesser of two evils' situation; that he didn't have much interest in killing any of the people on the block at the time, but felt that MJW would do the least harm when he showed up town. And was wrong about MJW showing up town.

Hmm okay, still sounds weird.

MJW: 5 (zakalwe; novice; JKaen; Qgqqqq; Jowy)
Mattimeo: 4 (MJW; Azza; Azarius; Gazglum)
Azza: 1 (Mattimeo)

This should be correct.
Edit:Looking back, Jowy's vote looks worse then I thought - I thought he was breaking a tie rather then just sealing the deal (he changed it from 4:3->5:3 rather then 4:4->5:4).
Still, he definitely looks better off that vote.

If he'd voted for me instead, would have been 4:4 -> coin flip (or actually, me dead since Gaz got up early enough to vote).

Jowy's moved up to reasonably definite town, for me.
[/quote]
That doesn't change the fact that at the time it would only have changed it to 4:4. Besides, I don't think of it in terms of how it would've been if he'd voted differently, more if he'd voted on it at all/not.
Did you read the rest of my post [with regards to Jowy]?

Really not liking this:

Zak, please switch. Trust your Glumbuddy.

Agree.
Seems a bit too blatant, but then he could be caught up in the moment. That (I think) he was previously arguing against Matt helps.

Way to blow my secret identity TIM.

Oops
The explanation, spoiled below, makes sense. Bit weird, but things happen when you have to rush online.

My posts were a confused mess, as I had literally just rolled out of bed to see my favoured lynches slipping away with minutes to spare. I read the lynch count here:

Day end in half an hour.

Vote Count:

MJW: 4 (zakalwe; novice; JKaen; Qgqqqq)
Mattimeo: 3 (MJW; Azza; Azarius)
Jowy: 1 (Gazglum)
novice: 1 (Jowy)

But I was in a rush and misread it as Novice voting Jowy instead of the other way round, so I told Novice he needed to pick one of the top targets (which I thought were now 4/4 after my vote). Then I realised it was Jowy voting Novice, so HE had to pick a top two target, and I thought he wouldn't because I didn't trust him and he didn't last time. I was in a bit of a flap.

THEN I realised that Jowy had already picked a top two candidate, which I had missed because it was after the vote count, so the whole question was moot and it was 5v4. Unless one of MJW voters switched, and I asked Zak to because he'd just responded to me so I knew he was around. Then the bell rang and I actually went and found a pair of pants to put on.

I'll put my vote on Azza for now. There's his post yesterday against Mattimeo, being quiet today, and justifying his final vote by elimination, with a kind of argument that is very easy to manipulate into yielding the result that he wants. And it's a logical alternative to Mattimeo, since they've been accusing each other.

Didn't like this post. Waited til I wasn't going to be online before pushing a case against me, and suggested I'd been unusually quiet which I'd strongly disagree with.

I agree that its bad timing, but I'd definitely say you've been unusually quiet. Perhaps its simply that you've scaled down according to number of players, but you haven't been posting as much as (/or as content-filled as) you normally do (IMO).

The other is Jowy. Jowy also pushed it from 4:3 to 5:3, so the effect on the lynch was the same, which is sort of to strengthen it. I dislike this vote because it looks a bit like scum jumping on when its already decided (this was like 11minutes to the lynch) for the credit. I also believe (though I'd have to check...) that Jowy had attacked matt earlier in the game but not MJW, which seems weird, like he just chose it on a whim. What put him ahead of matt for a lynch Jowy? What I like about this post is it did seal the deal on MJW.

BS :P Would have been a 4-4 tie without my vote, and a 5-4 to lynch Matt if I had voted for Matt.

I don't care what it would've been if you hadn't voted, I'm talking about what had happened at the time of your vote. It was 4:3 then and your vote made it 5:3. The fact that Gazglum was later to alter this with his vote is immaterial, unless we presume a method of private communication between the two of you (which I'm not).

...

Voted for MJW because it would give the village more information. I was tempted to just make it a dice roll so I don't have to take personal responsibility if the lynched rolls villager, but that would have been selfish and not a good gameplay choice at all.

This is what I wanted, thanks.

Good job guys Never been happier to be wrong. I'm glad I made the hard gameplay choice rather than wussy out and leave it up to the dice.
MJW, you are dead, but I'll explain how the pieces fill the puzzle now. It's from my point of view btw.

The bolded part seems weird, given who you voted. What did you mean?

I had a slight village lean on MJW and a scum lean on you, zak and novice. MJW was a wolf and you guys just earned a strong village lean. I didn't mean to say that I was wrong about everything.. I made the right choice in the end, and I was right about Matt (if I thought he was scum, I would have voted for him instead).

Oh okay, I was only thinking about the lynch then, not about what it implied.

[Jowy]

You're not thinking. I was online at the deadline. Gaz made his vote 10 minutes before the deadline, I had plenty of time to change my vote if I wanted to. Are you really not understanding this, or are you trying to downplay the importance of my vote in order to set me up for a miss-lynch later?