[SPOILERS] Team EggHeads: DMOC and TeddyKGB (Now Lurker-Friendly!)

[TeddyKGB]

Congratulations, DMOC!

I've made few more pictures on T10, so you can post full report on that turn if you like. Glad you can play turns yourself now, I'm back to DL.

2/1/1 was just a very little possibility, I dont think it'll help us somehow. Our research time on AH, Fishing or Mining couldnt be 1 turn faster. I was mention Deer just because I was using this tile in early sims before we decide our opening.
As for Worker>Scout, another possible change, I dont think its good either now.

So, I guess, our micro set till T16 when we have to decide our worker action.
One possible move for him is road tile 1W of the deer camp. Its a good road long term and we lose only 1 worker turn on that, then continue with road pigs, pasture and road to MIT. Bad thing here, if we unlucky with forest grow on MIT tile, we couldnt plant it on T33 as in the last plan.

[Dhalphir]

our first two turnsets for my SG are done if you guys want to read

[DMOC]

Turn 11 - 3560 BC

The scout moved and uncovered more fertile land, but no resources. If our worker roads that forested tile out of the capital's cultural borders on turn 17/18-ish, then the scout should be 3 of its current position to keep an eye for 2-move barbarians.

There were no score changes this turn, which might be the last time that this happens. We should be seeing some teams getting Animal Husbandry and growing to size 2 soon (those that started with workboat should grow on turn 13 due to 5/22 turn 9, 10/22 turn turn 10, 15/22 turn 11, 20/22 turn 12, and 25/22 turn 13, I believe, assuming fish). Our worker, meanwhile, will be finished next turn, upon which he will start camping the deer, and we will work the 3F unimproved pigs to grow fast.





I suggest moving the scout 9-9.

Also, as long as we all understand our plan, it doesn't really matter to me who plays the turns. I should be around for the most part, but if the timer's going down someone should step in to play.

[Dhalphir]

i would suggest 9-9, then 3-3 then circling back around to rejoin the capital.

[TeddyKGB]

I agree with 9-9 next.

C&D notes: our GNP rank drop again, from 6 to 7.
Still no warriors build, unless I mistaken score and power increase as military tech, and not non military tech and warrior for different teams at certain turns.
DMOC, did you agree T10 score increase was Agri tech for both teams? Can I update tech tracking doc?

[TeddyKGB]

@Dhalphir. Offtopic about your SG.

Just some random thoughts on early development.
I could be wrong.

Bronze working comes in. I don't see any need to chop any forests yet, so I keep the worker on the hill building the mine.

Early chopping is too nice to delay it. Instead putting hammers on worker/settler, you choose to build mine and not even work it after?

Worker finishes the mine. I leave the third pop point on the lake tile for the commerce - we aren't in a rush for the warrior, so I don't see the need to work the mine yet. This is a decision I'm unsure of, please advise if this was correct.

I think its wrong. This early in the game you should put Food/Hammers above commerce unless you are on some micro plan for early tech whatever. The fact you playing FIN leader could change it, but I'd prefer Food/Hammers anyway. And your new mine gives you 0/4/1 now. In my opinion, its better tile to work.

You dont need more warriors, thats fine. But you need workers/settler here.
Basic guideline I use on new map is goes like this: Worker>grow size2>Worker#2>grow size3>Settler.
It depends on current leader/map, but its a good guideline to follow, imo.

I could be completely wrong though. Sorry, if I'm sound like 'I'm better at civ then you', its mostly because I'm not good with english language. I know I had much to learn, and could be wrong often.
Anyway, its your game and its looks fun.

[Dhalphir]

Thanks for the advice some sort of basic guidelines on when to aim for workers and settlers and when to focus on growth is exactly what I need

[TeddyKGB]

Techs so far, if our C&D department not wrong:

[DMOC]

Turn 12 - 3520 BC

The scout discovered more good news!



For those of you keeping track, we have the following health resources: (1) deer, (2) pigs, (3) fish, (4) wheat, (5) sheep, (6) cow, (7) corn, and (8) rice. I guess the +2 health bonus from Expansive will be pretty useless in this game. In contrast, we only have the gold for happiness. Since an early religion probably isn't part of our strategy, we're going to need to rely on an early Monarchy tech, which is fine since it leads to Guilds down the line.

I suggest the scout move 2-3 next turn. What do you think?

Anyway, our worker was finally completed, and he immediately went to camp the deer. The capital now works the 3F tile as planned to grow ASAP.



There were two score changes:

1. Raptorous went from 35 to 38, indicating that he was the first to reach size 2. (Take note: population point increases mean 3 points.)
2. Bowturso went from 29 to 35, indicating a tech.

Three teams still have yet to acquire their first technology or grow to size 2:

1. Team Eagles & Condors start with Fishing/Agriculture, so I'm pretty sure they're researching Animal Husbandry. They should get that tech next turn.
2. Team Master and Margarita start with Wheel/Agriculture, so they could be researching Animal Husbandry or Pottery, but I'm certain that they're researching AH. They should get that tech next turn. EDIT: Yes, just simmed it myself, if one starts with Wheel/Agr and techs AH while working a tile with 1 commerce, then AH is in on turn 13.
3. Team Gladiator's Glory starts with Fishing/Mining, so I'm pretty sure they're researching Bronze Working.



Team Raptorous must be the one with 10 food. 5 from the fish, 2 from the city center, and 3 from working some 3F tile (e.g. unimproved pigs).



@TeddyKGB, I've got some spare time now so I'll attempt to address your question shortly.

[DMOC]

I agree with 9-9 next.

C&D notes: our GNP rank drop again, from 6 to 7.
Still no warriors build, unless I mistaken score and power increase as military tech, and not non military tech and warrior for different teams at certain turns.
DMOC, did you agree T10 score increase was Agri tech for both teams? Can I update tech tracking doc?

Yes, I think that was the case.

----

To everyone: here's a summary of the openings I think the teams went based on our knowledge within turns 0 through 12, along with my confidence level in these actions. High = confident, Medium = less confident, Low = not very confident.

1. E&C: Started with workboat, followed by a worker, and should get Animal Husbandry on turn 13. Medium
2. Dinosaurs: Started with workboat, then put in production to warrior while growing to size 2 on turn 12. They researched Agriculture on turn 10, since the fish commerce isn't enough to get the tech a turn earlier. High
3. M&M: Started with worker, researching Animal Husbandry (due on turn 13). High
4. Bowsling / Aivoturso: They started with a worker and finished Animal Husbandry on turn 12. Medium
5. Orgynized: Started with workboat, finished Hunting on turn 7. High
6. Blame Caledorn: Started with workeer, finished Mining on turn 8 and their worker on turn 12. High
7. Care Bears: They were the only team to move their starting settler, presumably to an inland location with 18 land tiles and 3 water tiles. They then started on a worker and researched Agriculture on turn 10. High
8. Pony: Started with worker, finished Hunting on turn 6. High
9. GG: Started with workboat, followed by a worker, and are researching Bronze Working (due on turn 14-ish). Medium

Yes, I'm feeling a little confident.

And ours:

10. Open with worker first, research Hunting -> Animal Husbandry.

Let me know what everyone thinks about this. Some thoughts:

1. Same reasoning as #9 down the list, only I think due to starting with Fish/Agr that they're headed for AH.
2. They started with fishing and mining, so they can work 3H off the bat. On the last turn before the workboat is completed, they can switch from 3H to a tile like 2F 1H 1C (e.g. our deer) and still get the workboat out, but this lets them net a coastal fish and grow in 4 more turns (rather than 5) and thus I assume they are at size 2 (w/zero food overflow) on turn 12 and are almost certainly making a worker. Worldbuilder simulations showed that even with financial fish worked, it's not enough to speed up Agriculture to get it on turn 9, so turn 10 is the most likely bet. The Wheel is not the tech they researched because average rival power did not change.
3. I'm pretty sure this is right, as I tested it in WB where if we work a tile with 1 commerce with the first citizen, AH comes in on turn 13, explaining the lack of score increases.
4. They were the only one to get a tech increase last turn, and on turn 12, average rival power was at 2777 (from 2444 last turn) but another team had grown in population, so the 2000 power generated by AH seems right. But what I'm confused about is that they started with Hunting and Agriculture, so if they worked a tile with 1 commerce, they should have finished Animal Husbandry on turn 11, not turn 12.
5. They started with Fishing/Agriculture, so going workboat first is straightforward with a 3H tile. Since it doesn't give commerce, they had to wait until turn 7 to get Hunting, as compared to Team Pony which got it a turn earlier (as that team didn't have to work a 3H tile). The rival average power also went up on turn 7. With Agriculture and Hunting, they are likely researching Animal Husbandry.
6. They were the only ones to get a score increase on turn 8, and the average power went up (Mining gives 2000 soldiers). Since they are expansive, it makes sense for them to work a 3H tile and start with a worker. Also, since their starting techs were Mysticism and Agriculture, they have either rice, wheat, or corn in their capital, showing that the starts are not mirrored.
7. Since they moved their settler inland (first 9 tiles are land) and start with Myst/Mining, they started with a worker while working a 1-commerce tile, thus allowing Agriculture to be done in 9 turns (i.e. done on turn 10).
8. They were the first to get a score increase (on turn 6), and since they started with Wheel/Agriculture, they must have gotten either Hunting or Fishing. However, the rival average power went up, so Hunting it ls. With Hunting and Agriculture, they might be researching Animal Husbandry.
9. They started with Fishing/Mining, so the logical tech is Bronze Working, which takes even longer than AH to research. Starting with Fishing, they probably built a workboat, but then I think they immediately started on a worker after that, thus explaining why they are at size 1 while Team Dinosaurs is at size 2. But they might have been sloppy in micromanagement and thus might not grow until turn 13. If their score doesn't change next turn, we can assume they're building a worker.

(By the way, I updated the first post with the names of all the teams, since it'll make it easier for me to remember.)