WW27 Game Thread: Once there were 12

[Jowy]

Why would they be ready to no-kill in the night and give the village an extra miss-lynch in return for a good cover, but wouldn't be ready to sacrifice MJW?

This is kind of backwards. If they (Mattimeo and Azarius) are both scum, then they first failed to save MJW, and then decided to make a bold play on the following night. After the setback of losing MJW, they might well feel like they had to double down and go for a more high-risk high-reward strategy.

But if they are both scum, they did not "fail to save MJW". It was scum versus scum. Why not just sacrifice MJW? And if they are both scum, then Azarius was already voting for scum, so why vote for the scum that lives rather than for the scum that dies? If he voted for the scum who died, he would have gained villager credit for it and wouldn't have needed to no-kill the next night.

[zakalwe]

Right, what I meant was that they failed to secure a mislynch. Mattimeo's vote was on Azza, but it's true that Azarius voted for Mattimeo pretty early, and stayed there. So maybe they aren't such a likely pair. I don't think that is enough to conclude that either of them must be innocent, but I see your point.

[Qgqqqqq]

[Quote]I haven't said that. I did say something about Azarius and Novice both being scum being unlikely, since we now know Azarius did visit him in the night. Though I realize there is one problem with my thinking: I originally thought that if they were both scum, they could just lie about where Azarius went, and he could use his ability (whatever it is) on someone else. But actually we did have a watcher, so I suppose the scum could have been smarter than me and remembered that such roles exist and they probably shouldn't lie if they can just visit one another. As for your actual question, I found Azarius had more scum tells. I really really did not like his lurking when MJW was lynched, and I think the timing of his reveal only benefited himself and not the village. His early game was low content. And now that Azza and Gaz are dead and rolled villagers, he looks even worse. My thoughts on you are basically that you've put a ton of effort into this game, and I've been told that as a wolf it is harder to contribute and think of things to say, so it wouldn't make much sense that you up your game tremendously for a game where your objective is to hide and survive rather than catch wolves. That's why I have Azarius, Zak and Novice as higher suspects than you.

Oh, and to answer the original question, I don't see anyone as "impossible" to be scum. If others (or I) find something that makes those people you mentioned scummier than they look now, then they will go higher in my list. I think in general it is always best to lynch the scummiest. Sure, the least scummiest person in the game could be a wolf, but you can't lynch everyone and it is a game of odds.[/Quote

I have no time tonight try to read in morning but don't wait for me. This post looks weird as jowy says he didn't have him as more likely (or something of that ilk) but he did because he made lynch which have zak novice and azarous on it. Sorry if I've missed the point but looks weird to me, what are you meaning?

[Qgqqqqq]

Sorry post quoted is the last one on p127 or 635( I think)I'm not past there, just stuck out to me. Given you have concluded that azarius is unlikely scum (this Kay have changed sorry) then do you think you have it nailed in zak/novice? If not, who else are you thinking?

[Jowy]

Dude I already corrected you. I think this is where you think I said it:

Jowy, since I'm one of your top suspects, I would be interested in hearing a scenario from you on how night two went now that you have it confirmed that I visited novice.

Ah right! That does make it seem very unlikely that you are scum together. It improves your position individually as well, as we now know you have an ability that you can use on someone. Could still be a fake claim by scum who has another ability, or a scum roleblocker. But I've talked a lot about odds this game, and the odds of you rolling wolf have gone lower now that we know for sure you did visit novice.

And I've since then talked more about both of them, but I'm just quoting this to show you where you took those words from and that you are misremembering what I was talking about.

[novice]

I'll have little time for the rest of the day. Qgqqqqq can hold on to my vote.

Aww shucks
Ok, I'll bite, why?

Well I keep considering suspects and coming up with reasons why they're probably town even though there are scummy sides to their play. I can't think of any reasons why you must be town though.

You've been very active in this game, but you've shown before that you're good at being active as scum. Your posts have generally been reasonable and you've agreed with Zak and lot (sometimes explicitly, sometimes by arguing points that I agree with). So I would say your game has been very reasonable, but at the same time I don't feel like you've stuck your neck out much.

[novice]

you've agreed with Zak and lot

should be "you've agreed with Zak and me a lot".

[zakalwe]

Yeah, there are points in favor of pretty much everybody so it's not so easy to decide. I'd rather lynch Mattimeo than Novice, though.

Q, I believe I have answered the question that you asked me, so why did you leave your vote on me?

[novice]

What are your thoughts on Q, Zak?

Jkaen, Jowy, Mattimeo, you really should elaborate on why you're voting for me.

[Jkaen]

Did I not elaborate earlier when you were voting for me. Convinced one of you or Zak is scum right now, think its more likely to be you