WW27 Game Thread: Once there were 12

[Jowy]

Okay this is good for us. It is novice and zak then. If Azarius had lived, he would have been a wolf for sure, scum wouldn't have risked Azarius blocking them this night and the next and giving the village an extra miss-lynch. If Azarius had been a wolf, it would have been hard to figure out his scum buddy with high accuracy. Azarius, nice play keeping it hidden that you were out of shots. The timing of your reveal also makes sense now. GG WP.

novice

[zakalwe]

I don't think they would fear that Azarius had three shots, when the doctor had only one. Besides, you had already made it clear that you would suspect Azarius if he survived the night. So why would they kill him, if you are innocent? I think it's more likely that they wanted him dead so they could establish once and for all that Novice really was jailed.

Jowy

I think Q is the other one, and Jkaen is the wrongheaded villager that they're counting on to carry the day.

[Jkaen]

Well clearly it should be obvious to everybody know that it's Novice

[Jkaen]

I think it's more likely that they wanted him dead so they could establish once and for all that Novice really was jailed.

I don't think that was really in doubt. Besides, regardless of whether Novice was town or not, scum already knew if was jailed surely, if town they knew their kill didnt go through, and if scum the only other option was roleblocking and why would a villager lie about what he did.

[Jkaen]

Oh Zak, can you explain why you seem to be saying without a doubt that Novice is definetely a villager, to the extent you don't seem to even consider it a possibility he is scum. What makes you so sure?

[Jkaen]

Qgq, Yesterday you said that you just couldn't see Novice as scum, have the results from the lynch and the night kill changed your mind, or do you still feel that?

It's looking pretty obvious that you are going to be the swing vote today between the brothers and the 'Jays', but I would hope you have already come round to our thinking

[Jkaen]

Ok a bit more on Novice here:

This is the post where he voted Mattimeo, no explanation, but he later goes on to say its because Mattimeo voted him with no explanation.

Novice, you bringing up who Serdoa was targeting before his death against Jkaen isn't the first time you've followed this train of thought. The people whom Serdoa was on the closest to his death were yourself and zakalwe though. If this is a strong tell for you, why no suspicion of zakalwe because of it?

No it's not a strong tell. Truth be told I just piled what I could remember of damning circumstances onto my JKaen vote to see what shook out.

God, I'm hung over.

Mattimeo

Here he states he didnt need the town cred as everybody thought he was town (given he is still up for lynch, even with this extra town cred I would argue he did need it). He also states he wants to switch votes to Qgq but can't unless people take the votes off him. Note this is with over 2 hours to go. I don't really doubt if he tried he could have swung round to somebody else in that time.

Did I not elaborate earlier when you were voting for me. Convinced one of you or Zak is scum right now, think its more likely to be you

Ok, you realize I'm the reason MJW got lynched? So I must have bussed him then for town cred. Town cred that I didn't really need, as I seemed to be town in everybody's eyes already.

I would actually prefer to lynch Q today. I could also lynch Zak if that's what it takes to not get lynched myself. I can't do anything unless someone unvotes me though.

The other question is if he didn't even think Mattimeo was scum, just 'a villager playing scummily' then why was he voting for him in the first place!

Why do you want to lynch Q over Matt?

Matt feels like a villager playing scummily.

Finally even at the point he placed his Mattimeo vote, it was obvious he was going to get major heat yesterday. It is pure nonsense to suggest that for one moment scum would consider killing Novice as he tries to suggest below

He also had the entire day to find a target he actually thought was scummy rather than Mattimeo who he never it seems had any scum tell on at all (as he washes his hands of the mislynch). Don't buy getting stuck on him as an excuse at all, 48 hours is plenty of time for him to form a view on a better target if he was a villager

Jkaen, I've been extremely busy the last days, and I've had long periods of outright downtime. The period after my initial Mattimeo vote was one of them. I didn't want to say so because I hoped to get nightkilled, of course last day ruined any chance of that. Even so, I did find a better target than Mattimeo, I just couldn't vote him.

I would love to have that kind of leverage to use when I lynch a bunch of villagers with bad reasons.
That's, what, 3 villagers lynched without any proper reason? CH policy lynch, Azza lynched for his one post from Day 1, Matt lynched for making a single vote you didn't like..

Jowy, after MJW's lynch you postulated (and I agreed) that the non-MJW voters were the most likely scum players. Why are they suddenly such bad lynches? I mean, you were on Gaz on day 3, how was that any better than Azza?

[zakalwe]

I think it's more likely that they wanted him dead so they could establish once and for all that Novice really was jailed.

I don't think that was really in doubt. Besides, regardless of whether Novice was town or not, scum already knew if was jailed surely, if town they knew their kill didnt go through, and if scum the only other option was roleblocking and why would a villager lie about what he did.

My point was that they wanted it publicly known, so they could use it as additional evidence against him.

Oh Zak, can you explain why you seem to be saying without a doubt that Novice is definetely a villager, to the extent you don't seem to even consider it a possibility he is scum. What makes you so sure?

He had a smorgasbord of available mislynches, just needed two of them to win, and still chose to lynch MJW.

It's possible that he's scum, but it's not likely.

[Jkaen]

We had a proven village tracker say he visited novice.
We had a no kill the day he visited novice
We had no other counter claim that somebody else was responsible for the no kill

I think it was pretty well solid that Novice had been jailed, there was no need to kill Azarius to prove it.

As for getting MJW lynched, Novice has done it before to great success, and as has been mentioned I think everybody is convinced MJW was going down this game anyway due to the style he chose to play with.

[Jowy]

Zak and Novice is the obvious scum duo. Just like MJW, they also played up to their reputation. And it almost worked. If Azarius hadn't stopped that night kill, we would have already lost because it'd be 2-2 today. It was an effective strategy, something I'd expect from Zak and Novice. Even now I fear we have to argue hard to get Q on our side.

They are good enough players to not play a game like this if they were villagers. And I think they realized this, which is why they chose to sacrifice MJW for village credit. And it is partly working, because without that sacrifice we wouldn't even need to discuss anything, they would be 100% auto-lynches.