[SPOILERS] Scooticator and Pindooter give a sporting try

[scooter]

Okay so Nakor got a score increase of... exactly 1? Is 1 pop only worth 1 point on this map?

[pindicator]

Okay so Nakor got a score increase of... exactly 1? Is 1 pop only worth 1 point on this map?

Yeah, i think pop can be 1 or 2, depending on the rounding

[pindicator]

I think we should change that worker build in the capital to a unit.  We're going to want it either as an escort for the settler going north, or a unit to send towards Nakor/Jester as the war kicks off.  If you don't catch it before the turn changes then maybe we can rotate that southern axe northward instead.  I also want to do more scouting towards Commodore, which we'll need units for.  We really need to see what kind of land is between him and us and where the good city spots would be.

I do want to settle for horses next, and hopefully that galley can uncover a seafood resource or two up there to make plant better than just cow + horse.  (And if there isn't then we'll just pump workers at size 2.)

Also, we need spears or archers if Nakor has horses

For tech, I think it stil needs to be a Calendar beeline.  Then we can think about deciding between HBR or Currency or Literature.

[scooter]

I think we should change that worker build in the capital to a unit. We're going to want it either as an escort for the settler going north, or a unit to send towards Nakor/Jester as the war kicks off. If you don't catch it before the turn changes then maybe we can rotate that southern axe northward instead. I also want to do more scouting towards Commodore, which we'll need units for. We really need to see what kind of land is between him and us and where the good city spots would be.

Well, I would definitely disagree with the notion that we should be building any units in TB for the purpose of sending at Nakor. Even with roads, that's like 8 tiles away. Extremely inefficient place to build a unit. Now, north for horses yeah maybe, but I think we want to see that land before committing to that since we could just as easily soon settle the horse south of Orioles (seriously). I think I want to know that there's seafood by north horse first... We should find out this turn. I'll do that shortly.

Also, we need spears or archers if Nakor has horses

For tech, I think it stil needs to be a Calendar beeline. Then we can think about deciding between HBR or Currency or Literature.

Agreed on both counts. I'd like to get a Spear out of probably Red Wings next. Or... Bulldogs would be more ideal, but kinda painful to whip again.

[scooter]

Turn 075

Okay, there's a lot of new stuff for us to consider. First off, we completed Iron Working at end of last turn. We have sight on several sources of iron. I somehow missed a screenshot of the best iron, but here's our exploring galley in the east:



Lots to digest in this picture!

1) No seafood spotted by the cow/horse yet,but we have an island to our east! That's pretty fantastic news. I think we want a city over there very quickly to get some early IC routes going. Plus that direction may be our ticket to making some new contacts and getting a jump start on circumnav.
2) Look under the mine and windmill icons on the interface, and you'll see some very lovely iron . You'll also see a barb warrior 1S of that. Anyway, I think we should improve that with Steve Yzerman as soon as that barb warrior is dead. I imagine it'll move onto the plains forest hill next. From there it'll either suicide into the archer, or it'll move onto flatland which we can then kill. Not totally sure, but that's an extremely nice yield tile. We have a really great capital overall, and I think it's greatly in our interest to grow it very large.



Commodore has iron. Whatever. More interestingly...



Wowzers. That's a big deal. It's also a high priority for Rome because...



As far as we can see, they have none elsewhere. Anyway, the stuff that really matters:



All set to go up this way. Note that 49ers is now working the gold (I zoomed in to make absolutely sure). I would assume this is confirmation that they grew last turn because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to work that gold at size 1. I'd guess they're working elephant + gold while building a work boat, which is the most logical way to develop things. Note that they first chopped 2 forests before messing with the gold, which I presume was a Monument and Granary (not military since they weren't on their resource network), meaning a WB next would be just about perfectly timed, hence my guess. Anyway, wait til they play T76, and then if we don't get any surprises between now and then, we move S-SW. That'll leave us with 1 movement point available. Take a look at what's inside. If it's just a warrior or whatever, declare, move 1SW, and raze off the boats. If it's an archer or axe, we may want to do a sim to see if 2 unpromoted axes will win with amphibious penalty. In fact, I might do that tonight just so we know the answer in advance.

If we don't feel confident of victory, we may just land on the gold, stealing a worker in the process (I'm assuming that worker will stick around to road it). The downside to that is it lets them whip the city if they have any hammers into the unit. I tend to think we'll definitely want to roll the dice on attacking amphibiously if there's just 1 unit in the city, but we can check hammers in the box and all that.

So as painful as it is to suggest such a thing, should we build a Spear out of Bulldogs now? I think we need one soon. Copper was hooked by them well before horse (and their only cities that can build chariots are down south) so there's not a ton of likelihood we'll see a chariot just yet... but I'd rather not take chances. Thoughts?

[pindicator]

Ugh, I really don't like this attack.  Have I said that before?  Only a hundred times?  Okay, just so I'm on record...

I hate delaying that granary further.  No bueno.  Honestly, I don't think we'll have an issue with defending our current cities - it will be defending 49ers from any chariot counter-attacks.  But definitely do a spear next in Red Wings, and if you think it's necessary swap off the Great Wall and start a unit in Orioles as well.  Or put a turn into a spear or archer and then whip it at Orioles; that city is just about done with it's whip anger anyway.

Settling on top of that iron down south would be fine for me, but if we do that for our horse we're going to need to spam units to defend it.  I'm fearful of us repeating the pb13 mistake of not building enough units to back up our aggressive settling.

Great news from the galley.  I would love to get our next settler by that pig; it's by far the best food tile we have available to us.  Next settler goes after the pig?  Or should we send the one we're currently building along with our axe by the gems and the next settler plants on top of the iron in the southwest?

Question:  How are we accounting for the barbarian axe up north?  Are we just going to let him pillage the rice?  Have I mentioned I hate our attack?

[scooter]

Ugh, I really don't like this attack.  Have I said that before?  Only a hundred times?  Okay, just so I'm on record...

I thought you were completely on board? The upside to taking this city is massive. +2 happy for Darius? Yes please.

I hate delaying that granary further.  No bueno.  Honestly, I don't think we'll have an issue with defending our current cities - it will be defending 49ers from any chariot counter-attacks.  But definitely do a spear next in Red Wings, and if you think it's necessary swap off the Great Wall and start a unit in Orioles as well.  Or put a turn into a spear or archer and then whip it at Orioles; that city is just about done with it's whip anger anyway.

Agree, I don't want to delay Bulldogs. You know what may be best is putting just a few hammers into a spear at Orioles, double whip it for max overflow which dumps into Great Wall. I can check #s on that later tonight to see if it makes any sense. Anyway, agreed that our current cities are totally fine, it's only 49ers that is a potential issue. Axe/Spear pair makes it completely safe IMO.

Settling on top of that iron down south would be fine for me, but if we do that for our horse we're going to need to spam units to defend it.  I'm fearful of us repeating the pb13 mistake of not building enough units to back up our aggressive settling.

After thinking on it, I don't want to settle on that iron anytime soon. I don't think that's worth it yet. I have a couple ideas how we could manage that if the conflict drags on, but with the island discovery, it's not such a great idea. Gold/ivory as our southwest border is fine with me.

Great news from the galley.  I would love to get our next settler by that pig; it's by far the best food tile we have available to us.  Next settler goes after the pig?  Or should we send the one we're currently building along with our axe by the gems and the next settler plants on top of the iron in the southwest?

Ironically finding the pigs island is what makes the attack seem like a little less of a good idea. Anyway, I have a suggested plan for that:



Swap to an archer in TB, work the pfh to finish it quicker. Could be interrupted by that warrior, but I think we can squeeze out the hammers without whipping. Anyway, settler completes EoT76, archer EoT77. The galley next turn moves 1NW (defogging BFC of horse/cow), then retreats 2 tiles, eventually ending 1N of the fish EoT77. T76-77 the grass hill worker moves 1S, roads. We don't really care about that grass hill mine nearly as much with the iron & pigs discovery. Both archer/settler get on the boat T78, loaded galley moves 3 tiles towards the island to scout out the right spot. Land them T79, settle T80. The roading worker then heads south for the iron mine. TB will finish its half-completed worker after that, and when the galley returns, it should be about ready to head over and drop on the pigs. Sound like a rough plan? It can easily be tweaked to have them board a turn later and not lose much.

Question:  How are we accounting for the barbarian axe up north?  Are we just going to let him pillage the rice?  Have I mentioned I hate our attack?

The options are not appealing, but we do have an option.



So with the gems mined, Orioles can now afford to be empty for a couple more turns. So I moved that axe NE-NE. It can hit the axe on the rice next turn. The odds will be slightly below 50%, which isn't great, but I think that's better than losing the rice. Anyway, if we win, great, that's 2xp and promotion #2. If we lose, the archer there could clean up, which will also earn it a second promotion (it's at 4/5xp). So either way, we get a double promo unit out of it which is a decent consolation prize. (If the archer gets a second promo for instance, I'd be awfully tempted to make it G2 and park it on the iron later. Not right away of course, but if it ends up being necessary.) Anyway, as one final backup plan, we have the axe on the plains hill. That road completes next turn, allowing it to make it into Red Wings. We don't necessarily want to move it in since it really would be better served getting south into Tigers, but that's an option to cover Red Wings (MP purposes) if killing the axe requires 2 units. The only way we're losing the rice is if a barbarian shows up down by Orioles and we're forced to retreat the axe.

So there's my 2 plans. Thoughts? Turn not ended.

[SadGit]

 I'm fearful of us repeating the pb13 mistake of not building enough units to back up our aggressive settling.

How did that one end for you btw?

Groundhog Day was a great movie imho.

[pindicator]

I thought you were completely on board? The upside to taking this city is massive. +2 happy for Darius? Yes please.

No, I've always thought it better to wait and attack when we were better developed.  You had more conviction though so I relented.  I'm not going to try to change the plan, but I still don't like how thread-bare our resources are stretched for it.

Agree, I don't want to delay Bulldogs. You know what may be best is putting just a few hammers into a spear at Orioles, double whip it for max overflow which dumps into Great Wall. I can check #s on that later tonight to see if it makes any sense. Anyway, agreed that our current cities are totally fine, it's only 49ers that is a potential issue. Axe/Spear pair makes it completely safe IMO.

I like that.  It'd be a good way to get a spear or an archer out, though I think we may have to settle for a 1-pop whip.

After thinking on it, I don't want to settle on that iron anytime soon. I don't think that's worth it yet. I have a couple ideas how we could manage that if the conflict drags on, but with the island discovery, it's not such a great idea. Gold/ivory as our southwest border is fine with me.

That's ok.  It makes a really good forward city plant, being on a hill and cramping them for space.  But it's also not ideal to settle on top of iron.  So maybe we can leave that for after we conquer Nakor/Jester?

Ironically finding the pigs island is what makes the attack seem like a
little less of a good idea. Anyway, I have a suggested plan for that:

Swap to an archer in TB, work the pfh to finish it quicker. Could be
interrupted by that warrior, but I think we can squeeze out the hammers
without whipping. Anyway, settler completes EoT76, archer EoT77. The galley
next turn moves 1NW (defogging BFC of horse/cow), then retreats 2 tiles,
eventually ending 1N of the fish EoT77. T76-77 the grass hill worker moves
1S, roads. We don't really care about that grass hill mine nearly as much
with the iron & pigs discovery. Both archer/settler get on the boat T78,
loaded galley moves 3 tiles towards the island to scout out the right spot.
Land them T79, settle T80. The roading worker then heads south for the iron
mine. TB will finish its half-completed worker after that, and when the
galley returns, it should be about ready to head over and drop on the pigs.
Sound like a rough plan? It can easily be tweaked to have them board a turn
later and not lose much.

 I like this a lot.  And you're right; there isn't so much need for another grass hill mine if we're going to have iron.

As an aside, how awesome is our capital now?  At size 8 we'll be working Fish, Cows, Iron, 2 cottages, 2 grass hill mines, and a plains hill mine.  We want to make sure this city is at its happy cap all the time.

So with the gems mined, Orioles can now afford to be empty for a couple more turns. So I moved that axe NE-NE. It can hit the axe on the rice next turn. The odds will be slightly below 50%, which isn't great, but I think that's better than losing the rice. Anyway, if we win, great, that's 2xp and promotion #2. If we lose, the archer there could clean up, which will also earn it a second promotion (it's at 4/5xp). So either way, we get a double promo unit out of it which is a decent consolation prize. (If the archer gets a second promo for instance, I'd be awfully tempted to make it G2 and park it on the iron later. Not right away of course, but if it ends up being necessary.) Anyway, as one final backup plan, we have the axe on the plains hill. That road completes next turn, allowing it to make it into Red Wings. We don't necessarily want to move it in since it really would be better served getting south into Tigers, but that's an option to cover Red Wings (MP purposes) if killing the axe requires 2 units. The only way we're losing the rice is if a barbarian shows up down by Orioles and we're forced
to retreat the axe.

Yeah, my only concern is that if an axe shows in the south.  We'll have nothing to defend the gems and Tigers will only be defended with a warrior.  Ideally we can move the healthy axe back south to Tigers.

Hmmmm, I might consier just letting the axe pillage the rice to make sure we get odds on the attack.  Yeah, we lose 5 worker turns, but considering how tight we're keeping things with units it may not be good to lose one now.

[pindicator]

Hmmm... I can't log in