[Spoilers] Fintourist and Old Harry have nothing to see here

[Old Harry]

Just making sure: Which save stack Harry are you looking? In the latest version, the worker that is mining the grassland hill S of Endor would have moved onto the banana tile S of Dunkirk. I believe this is a conscious micro improvement from your side and completely fine though Just to make sure that we know what we are doing: After this change 1 single worker won't have time to road both the tiles (S and SE/E of Dunkirk) before the borders pop and improving the cow starts. Consequently this is what we probably should be doing now with our 4 workers in the area:
T77: Plains hill road 1/2, Grassland mine 2/4 and 3/4, forest chop finishes.
T78: Plains hill road 2/2, the worker, which finished the chop finishes the grassland mine 4/4, 2 workers that were mining that grassland hill now start mining the plains hill 1/4 and 2/4
T79: Workers that started mining the plains hill move onto the tiles S and SE of Dunkirk, where they build roads T80-81 and start improving cows on T82.

Ah, sorry, I thought I'd transcribed the latest one, but I obviously didn't... Good catch, and I like your fix.

Consequently: Building an extra bowman in BoP is not a huge deal. It will delay our worker couple of turns (it will have work to do but we will manage) and probably costs us some beakers, so if you really want we can do it! We will of course need more bowmen eventually However, I'm not feeling the pressure yet and would be willing to continue with a low military still for a while. Our demos and victory screen show the depressive reality: I think we have a competitive amount of pop points, but the tiles we are working are not good enough to earn us top demos.. I'm totally not interested of finishing 2nd so that affects my gamble mentality a bit... Anyways, I will honestly be fine with whatever you decide!

It was me that said we have to gamble to win a game this big wasn't it? I'll stop being such a chicken then...

Yeah let's keep our barb killer nearby and see what suttree does. I don't have a bad feeling about this yet..

Shall we flash the injured bowman so he knows not to try anything? We want him there to cover workers anyway.

I think I'm willing to wait and risk us losing that site. The southern G spot is also valuable to us and it keeps our civ compact and works nicely for our expansion. I think that streching east already would be just a bit too much as I see it as an invitation for trouble. Who knows, maybe we would get away with it and waiting here is totally the wrong move, but I'm still crossing our fingers that T90 will be fast enough. IIRC suttree is still at 3 cities and making a 4-city line from north to west must seem for him as well.

And yeah, let's hope that there is something east of suttree's current city sites and we can live peacefully without border tensions still for a while..

In fact lets not antagonize the guy with a bunch of axes already built! Until we have a lot more bowmen at least.

[Fintourist]

Shall we flash the injured bowman so he knows not to try anything? We want him there to cover workers anyway.

Mmmm... Maybe? I would say that next turn we move it E (back to our road next work) and then heal it for a turn.. With full health standing in jungle we should have odds against the axe, right? You mentioned that we will have coinflip odds if we are wounded?

One possible variation of our micro is to road the tiles E and S of Dunkirk instead of SE & S. Makes protecting our workers probably easier. And if suttree is too annoying then we just skip roading those bananas for now and e.g. road dyes. The main reason for these actions is anyways the fluent movement to those cows...

[Old Harry]

I just jumped in to check the worker moves had been cancelled and discovered that the turn had rolled, so I unloaded the bowman to check if it was safe. There is a peak to the north (which is great because our worker on the pigs can't be interfered with!) and perhaps there are resources on the grassland and plains just in the fog?


Also a warrior might distract Suttree...

[Fintourist]

perhaps there are resources on the grassland and plains just in the fog?

At least the city will get a bunch of river tiles that we can cottage

I haven't analyzed yet whether we want barracks or granary first, but I think we will found the city S of pigs anyways? First ring food is just bigger than those 30 lost hammers and I don't think it's a bad thing to found a 2nd city, which captures those dyes and the rest of those river tiles.

[Old Harry]

I can play the turn in a couple of hours unless you want to grab it?

My analysis (okay, guess) of Barracks first is that we get +2 foodhammers and +1 cottage being worked for perhaps five or six turns - and we lose a couple of half-granaries worth of growth food (ie we will need to whip the granary, rather than chopping two forests into it and whipping the baracks). So granary first probably comes out ahead. It would just be nice to find a situation where that isn't true!

[Fintourist]

Turn 77

I can play the turn in a couple of hours unless you want to grab it?

Soooooorrry!!!! Now I was greedy! And too eager! I promise to leave the next turn for you!!

Anyways, it was only about executing already discussed stuff. At home:

• Endor gets barracks thanks to overflow from granary.
  
• Settlers, workers, bowmen..
  
• France will be founded next turn!
  
• Worker on a boat..
  

Not satisfied with demos, but that will be the theme for this game. What I would like to see is a high crop yield and GNP, but that's just not going to happen. At least before we get our commerce cities up and running. Interesting to see how our new cities (T78 & T82) will influence demos in the short-term though.

PS. Were my confusing notes regarding worker movements too confusing? I'm sure that everything will be obvious for you as long as one remembers to pay attention that everything must be done in the right order.
PPS. Latest savestack is the one with "FinalFinal TXX". Worker movements will now be different, but otherwise next turns will probably/hopefully be accurate.

[Fintourist]

My analysis (okay, guess) of Barracks first is that we get +2 foodhammers and +1 cottage being worked for perhaps five or six turns - and we lose a couple of half-granaries worth of growth food (ie we will need to whip the granary, rather than chopping two forests into it and whipping the baracks). So granary first probably comes out ahead. It would just be nice to find a situation where that isn't true!

Yeah, I agree with you. Also assuming that we improve the pigs first we don't really get whales online that much earlier than we get our first calendar luxuries. Granary wins. Aaaaalways.

EDIT: Of course, if getting whales 5 turns earlier online would have meant that Cannae will be 1 pop point ahead in the growth curve for the next 50 turns it would have made sense. In this case we probably just won't get those whales shot fast enough it to happen..

[Fintourist]

Suttree comes to scout us as expected. What do you think about declaring + offering peace next turn (trying to get 10 turns of enforced peace). If France really will be an island city (fingers crossed), I don't see us losing really any relevant trade route income if suttree accepts the peace.

Suttree is currently at the bottom of the scoreboard with 3 cities so it's kind of hard to evaluate his attitude towards this game..

[Old Harry]

To prevent him scouting us and messing with our micro? If we try it next turn does it give us long enough to get the cows on line? Our bowmen should be enough to discourage aggression, but it'd be nice to have the mechanic too. If he's thinking though he'll turn us down, move in to view Dunkirk and then offer peace back to us. Win-win.

Here is a bit more C&D, I think my city count for Suttree is off, but I can't see where, so take it all with a bit of salt... No one has more than one classical tech so far as I can see and I'd assume it's Maths for everyone but Jowy/Black Sword.

Player	No. of cities	Classical Techs
azza	5
Bacchus	5
Commodore	4
dtay	5	t77
Ichabandit	6
Jester	4
Jowy/The black sword	3	t52 (mc from oracle?)
Lewwyn	5	t75
Mostly_harmless	4	t64
Old Tourist	5	t68
pindicooter	4	t75
plako	4
Retep	4
Serdoa/Dhalphir	3	t69
slow	6
Suttree	2?
WilliamLP	4
YuriMack	4	t74

Finally there is mathematical proof that we're most boring
http://shielded-dawn-3575.herokuapp.com/index/index/
(Choose Pitboss 13 and scroll to the bottom)

[Fintourist]

To prevent him scouting us and messing with our micro?

Yeah, that would just make everything easier.. If suttree moves NW this turn and does not accept peace in time, it will either cost us an extra worker turn or delay cows by a turn.

If we try it next turn does it give us long enough to get the cows on line?

Yep!

Here is a bit more C&D, I think my city count for Suttree is off, but I can't see where, so take it all with a bit of salt... No one has more than one classical tech so far as I can see and I'd assume it's Maths for everyone but Jowy/Black Sword.

We know from trade screens that Yurimack have 5, and suttree 3. I guess civstats crashes might have something to do with missing data, but anyways that's a great overview! So we are possibly a 2nd team to 6 cities, which is not too bad.

Finally there is mathematical proof that we're most boring

Yeah, I noticed.. But don't blame yourself! It's simply my boringness that overwhelms your good reporting.. Based on views my PBEM45 thread did not receive much love either, so I'm kind of used to it already.. Well, let's hope that warfare helps..