[Spoilers] Fintourist and Old Harry have nothing to see here

[Old Harry]

Suttree has five cities, I think they are laid out like this and were settled in this order. The most recent two would be unlikely to have enough pop for a whip so that leaves 1, 2 and 3 as our danger cities. I presume the unit whipped in 3 is a chariot, but even with a road it can't get to 5 next turn, so our conqueror is safe and we can put a couple of worker turns into that farm (although to be sure we could just retreat them).


There will be an axe on the X who I expect to sit still next turn and be joined by two chariots on the Y on t94 (and possibly another axe, but that would probably need to be a turn later again). I don't fancy doing anything about that, but if that stack is to make further progress it'll have to be one tile at a time, allowing us to use a couple of axes or bowmen to take down the axe(s) before cleaning up the chariots with spears.

Edit: how bad would suttree settling on the x be for us? Also what do you think of planting j 1E?

I'll hit the sack now to be extra sharp for tomorrow morning's turn, but let me know what I've missed...

[Fintourist]

Bad news - I think those 3-point whips are 2-pop, and I've just checked in the sandbox and you can 2-pop dry-whip a chariot (I think dry-whipping is 0.66 * as many hammers, so 2 pop give 33 hammers).

Oh yeah, the multiplier is 0.66 and not 0.5 (as with wonders) Because of rounding of score it is actually possible that suttree performed three 2-pop whips and produced 3 chariots.. On the other hand, that would be awesome. By dry-whipping suttree significantly reduced his mid-term military production capabilities.

But anyways, let's not panic! Those chariots aren't here yet and neither chariots nor axes get odds against bowmen if they are sitting on jungle/forest/in a city. We also know suttree's city locations and a stack of chariots won't be here next turn..

Ok, here's what we do:
- We raze Seville with 1 bowman.
- We found Hastings and keep a warrior + bowman in the city. The city will be safe in any case.
- We put the axe + 2 bowmen (one of them could be promoted) onto the grassland tile W of Seville
- Our workers road the tile W of Seville
The reasoning:
Suttree can't have a powerful stack in range yet. His power is not too scary and we know that a good chunk of it is located at his southern border (axes defending the front with Yurimack). Now it's the perfect time to road the vulnerable tile W of seville, which makes the founding of City I significantly safer & easier (with no sign of suttree and spearman covering workers, roading the tile N of Seville will be pretty safe in the future). Our shock axe has odds against the axe that retreated and there is max. 1 chariot in range to attack our bowmen. If suttree wants to sacrifice one of his rare mounted units, which we should be able to clean up, well, that's fine.

I honestly believe that suttree does not feel comfortable with doing any aggression next turn. (He also don't have vision on any other tiles expect soon-to-be-former Seville).

And yeah, let's whip that spear next turn (this turn it would be double-moving). I hate to whip Dunkirk, because it does not have much food, but having that 1 spear will be valuable. Actually we might want to bring the spear that is about to finish in Endor here as well. We have much better visibility and more comfortable border in the north (zone defence bowman can stay there if you want?). ~2 (shock) axes, ~2 incoming spears and a handful of bowmen should be enough for the next couple of turns.

Your opinion next if you have time! I go sleep and respond tomorrow morning again! Let's stay focused!

[Fintourist]

Oh, I missed your map! Very nice!

My suggestion remains the same! Let's build that road first! Thanks to across the river penalty our bowmen will also have odds against chariots on the tile where we want that farm so it will be fairly safe to do that in the upcoming turns too!

[Fintourist]

Spamming continues..

There will be an axe on the X who I expect to sit still next turn and be joined by two chariots on the Y on t94 (and possibly another axe, but that would probably need to be a turn later again). I don't fancy doing anything about that, but if that stack is to make further progress it'll have to be one tile at a time, allowing us to use a couple of axes or bowmen to take down the axe(s) before cleaning up the chariots with spears.

Yeah, I think we should have the proper cards to deal with his aggression!

Edit: how bad would suttree settling on the x be for us? Also what do you think of planting j 1E?

Not worried at all! I doubt he'll do it. That city would again be extremely vulnerable..

EDIT: Let's consider that location for City J as well! It will be founded one turn later, but it would get better defense bonuses.. It loses some river tiles, but grasps more tiles from whoever is located NE of us. TBS/Jowy?

[TheHumanHydra]

Can you guys put the "City I, J," etc. signs on the map for next turn?

I have nothing constructive to add. Looks like you guys are following the only advice I could give, which is "stay sharp, don't neglect your defences." Congratulations on your apparent bloodless victory (so far).

[Fintourist]

I made the first moves of T93, but I left you Harry the honor of razing Seville and founding Hastings..

The spear did not attack our bowman on the island, which is slightly annoying and influences our worker micro a bit:



After taking this shot, I moved the settler (unloaded with a worker in France) + Bowman onto the hill as planned (this is Hydra btw the site for our City I and it will be founded next turn). I think we should keep the Lunch in place in case spear turns north and we want to put a back-up defender into the city. Btw, there is something weird with the screenshot: The bowman in the city has still his movement points left and could move e.g. NW-SW and challenge the spear.

My suggestions regarding Suttree front and workers near Endor can be found in previous posts. I also added some signs in-game as a reminder

EDIT: The original spot for the city I is in the east where we have the conflict with suttree and it is tagged as "dream X" in the screenshots from the area.

[Old Harry]

Turn 93 preliminary

I guess Mardoc on the forest hill put the fight at odds the spear didn't like, but moving Rowain onto the jungle should provoke an attack. I'm not sure what to do with the worker here - he could put another turn into the forest chop, then both complete the road next turn, then move onto the pasture?


Looking in-game I think the revealed culture on the overview shot decieved me and Suttree's city 3 is one tile further north than I thought, meaning a theoretical chariot can reach Seville and your proposed road this turn.


In which case I propose that:
- TheStick raze Seville
- We found Hastings
- We move BrickAstley into Hastings with the warrior
- We leave THH, Oxy and Ceiliazul on the jungle, ready to hit the chariot if it kills TheStick
- The workers put two turns into a farm and cancel
Your proposal was that:
- TheStick razes Seville
- We found Hastings
- We move BrickAstley into Hastings with the warrior
- We move THH, Oxy and Ceil to the grassland
- We road that grassland tile
Actually your plan does still sound a bit more fun. If we went for it:

What promotions do we give Oxy and Ceil?
A chariot vs an archer gets 73%
A chariot vs a CI archer gets 68%
A chariot vs a drill archer gets 70%

I think that Suttree's axe will go for the 64% shot at TheStick and the chariot will kill one of Oxy or Ceil, then if we clean up the chariot and axe with Brick and the warrior () and move THH and the surviving bowman to the dangerous tile we'll have defensive odds against both a chariot and another axe.

This is all a bit bloody though. We'll have a spear on the cow tile next turn and in Hastings the turn after. So should we play more defensively? I won't move anything over here for a little while so you can feed back.

[Fintourist]

I guess Mardoc on the forest hill put the fight at odds the spear didn't like, but moving Rowain onto the jungle should provoke an attack.

I think we want to promote him, right? Barbs take low odd battles too (remember that warrior that approached earlier).

I'm not sure what to do with the worker here - he could put another turn into the forest chop, then both complete the road next turn, then move onto the pasture?

There is no chop yet in that forest, it was my suggestion! But yeah, I agree!

Looking in-game I think the revealed culture on the overview shot decieved me and Suttree's city 3 is one tile further north than I thought, meaning a theoretical chariot can reach Seville and your proposed road this turn.

I think you're correct.

Actually your plan does still sound a bit more fun. If we went for it:

Yeah, let's go with it! Let's roll the dice! I think that piece of road is very useful and necessary for our future turns. It also allows the bowman in Hastings to attack the former-Seville-tile next turn if needed.

What promotions do we give Oxy and Ceil?

C1, I would say. Your call whether we give it to only one of them or both!

I think that Suttree's axe will go for the 64% shot at TheStick and the chariot will kill one of Oxy or Ceil, then if we clean up the chariot and axe with Brick and the warrior () and move THH and the surviving bowman to the dangerous tile we'll have defensive odds against both a chariot and another axe.

This is all a bit bloody though. We'll have a spear on the cow tile next turn and in Hastings the turn after. So should we play more defensively? I won't move anything over here for a little while so you can feed back.

This is possible! However, it's not guaranteed that the jungle tile (S-SE of Seville) even has a road, since coast is enough for suttree to get trade routes. I think we should play this turn still aggressively and not worry too much. I bet that suttree wants to gather his forces before countering and he won't send his units one by one to death. Remember that he does not really know whether we have more units coming to the area.

[Old Harry]

I guess Mardoc on the forest hill put the fight at odds the spear didn't like, but moving Rowain onto the jungle should provoke an attack.

I think we want to promote him, right? Barbs take low odd battles too (remember that warrior that approached earlier).

Combat I again?

I think that Suttree's axe will go for the 64% shot at TheStick and the chariot will kill one of Oxy or Ceil, then if we clean up the chariot and axe with Brick and the warrior () and move THH and the surviving bowman to the dangerous tile we'll have defensive odds against both a chariot and another axe.

This is all a bit bloody though. We'll have a spear on the cow tile next turn and in Hastings the turn after. So should we play more defensively? I won't move anything over here for a little while so you can feed back.

This is possible! However, it's not guaranteed that the jungle tile (S-SE of Seville) even has a road, since coast is enough for suttree to get trade routes. I think we should play this turn still aggressively and not worry too much. I bet that suttree wants to gather his forces before countering and he won't send his units one by one to death. Remember that he does not really know whether we have more units coming to the area.

If you look at the last pic you can see the road out of the pasture goes SE, which only happens if there is a road there. Even so I like being aggressive. There is always the chance that one of the chariots is in city 2, so we have more time than we think. I'd prefer not to be trading units at this point, but if that's the cost of acquiring land so be it...

This is a sandbox of our current position (the beakers are off for some reason, but you can patch in Currency in world builder) I'll have a bit of a play before playing the rest of the turn...

[Rowain]

... but moving Rowain onto the jungle should provoke an attack.

So much for a peaceful retiring post at the sea .