(October 30th, 2013, 12:37)Fintourist Wrote: Suttree ruined his game by playing really weak the first 100 turns..
I bet he discovered he started by YuriMack and decided axes were better than plowshares. Actually I'd bet they contested that gold site and Suttree lost. Against Mackoti that isn't weak, its normal. I do think deleting two workers to dry-whip three chariots was stupid though. He could have given us that city and then come back in ten turns with a far more efficiently-assembled army and taken Hastings then Jamestown off us (because we wouldn't have built all these units if he hadn't put up a fight...)
(October 30th, 2013, 12:37)Fintourist Wrote: We know for sure that suttree has put two turns into chopping that forest (that was visible at the end of the last turn) and I think suttree has not had time to put more worker turns over there.
Just because the roll-over says chop doesn't mean that's what the worker did...
(October 30th, 2013, 12:37)Fintourist Wrote: One scenario for suttree would be to attack Brick despite the jungle defense and move his troops onto the tile SE of Hastings. If that happens, let's hope that Brick takes two axes with him..
I think this is the tile THH meant. And this is probably the move that causes us most trouble, splitting our forces and threatening to cut Jamestown off completely, but he's been able to move SE of Hastings for ages and hasn't done it, so I think he's after Jamestown. If he does go there we move our four bowmen, spear and two shock axes into the city and win all of the initial defensive battles, thanks to bowmen on hills. Then hopefully our defenders are still strong enough to repel the second wave and our reinforcements from Jamestown arrive to mop up...
I'd really like to chop all the jungle south of Hastings ASAP, but I don't see a safe way to do it.
In other thoughts - hey! We can build spies now! Should we go peek inside Suttree's borders?
(October 30th, 2013, 12:37)Fintourist Wrote: Suttree ruined his game by playing really weak the first 100 turns..
I bet he discovered he started by YuriMack and decided axes were better than plowshares. Actually I'd bet they contested that gold site and Suttree lost. Against Mackoti that isn't weak, its normal. I do think deleting two workers to dry-whip three chariots was stupid though. He could have given us that city and then come back in ten turns with a far more efficiently-assembled army and taken Hastings then Jamestown off us (because we wouldn't have built all these units if he hadn't put up a fight...)
Well, I don't see a huge power drop in his early graphs (is there any?) and thus evidence for too crippling early fighting. His expansion speed was simply so slow that there really has to be some total catastrophes in the background before it's justified.. The city we razed was just his 5th city IIRC, while we settled our 10th just five turns after the city raze.
Quote:Just because the roll-over says chop doesn't mean that's what the worker did...
Quote:I think this is the tile THH meant. And this is probably the move that causes us most trouble, splitting our forces and threatening to cut Jamestown off completely, but he's been able to move SE of Hastings for ages and hasn't done it, so I think he's after Jamestown. If he does go there we move our four bowmen, spear and two shock axes into the city and win all of the initial defensive battles, thanks to bowmen on hills. Then hopefully our defenders are still strong enough to repel the second wave and our reinforcements from Jamestown arrive to mop up...
I'd really like to chop all the jungle south of Hastings ASAP, but I don't see a safe way to do it.
Yeah, if he moves to that tile, his troops will be annoying to remove, but there goes also his forking possibility, which means that his attack will probably be easier to handle. Thanks to hill defense bonus and unit specialty of bowmen defending Hastings should be pretty easy so I guess we would prefer having suttree's units stuck there instead of 2-turn attacking distance from Jamestown.
Quote:In other thoughts - hey! We can build spies now! Should we go peek inside Suttree's borders?
Wasn't it so that RBMod spies only see the tile where they stand? Can they still use enemy roads?
So mmmmaybe. I guess we would currently still prefer having an extra axe or something, right?
The first thing that greeted me when I logged into the game was this:
My guess is that dtay has two island cities as we do. If that guess would be correct this deal would bring us 2 commerce and 6 commerce for him. However, if our proposals to plako and ichabod go through we don't need the deal with dtay. So here's the offer for Ichabod:
He should be jumping out of joy when he sees this.. Instead of making most out of the deal we are trying to make us a friend here..
With plako the situation is different:
I think plako will also be happy about this and accept. Getting open borders offers despite having GLH shoud be good news for him. It's actually probable that he does not have 3 island cities yet so he is probably getting +20 commerce from this offer. Paying 5 gpt back is still a great deal for him. That said, I'm starting to think we should have asked for more..
Should we re-offer something to dtay?
Do we want to propose the same deal to slowcheetah as we offered plako?
How about Jowy/TBS?
Since we are on the same continent it's not reasonable to ask too much from TBS/Jowy or dtay.. If plako accepts the world map deal we could try to make our way to a new civ and make further deals..
Ok, now back to the real stuff. Guess what suttree did:
He retreated his 6 axe stack!
One of them went to cover the worker, which chopped the forest.
Does he actually get vision of Hastings when he moves to the tile EE of the city. I thought that the jungle prevents the vision, but my theory is now that he saw the chariot and decided to fall back.
This does not remove the threat of a big stack appearing, but now he is not anymore within a forking distance of Jamestown. Which means that we are safe for next two turns!
I did not check the power graph yet though..
The barb axe moved next to Hastings, I guess it's clear that we kill it with the chariot now.
We have 33 % chance to kill suttree's axe+worker with our bowman. If this was a duel the decision would be easy, because the expected result of that battle is that suttree loses more hammers than we. However, this is not a duel.. And therefore I suggest that we just retreat Brick..
I don't have time to play the whole turn tonight, so just a few suggestions:
- BoP hasn't got tiles to grow onto, it needs whipping, or it could give the fish back to Agincourt
- Agincourt could start on a library
- Cannae can grow in three if it sacrifices a cottage to work the unimproved sugar
- Dunkirk grows if it works the dye, do we want the overflow in a chariot (potential super-medic morale chariot) or store it for something else?
- Jamestown should build a spy once it runs out of other stuff to do.
Oh, and Hykepholos killed the axe with 55HP remaining. Pictures tomorrow.
On your questions:
I think we wait and see what plako and Ichabod say before offering other deals, I don't like offering open borders to our neighbours as that encourages scouting and what they don't know they can't covet, but I know how much you love money so I'm torn...
Shall we leave Brick where he is, as that's a tile they might want to come through and he can make it hard for them. In fact is it worth roading it?
Suttree may have seen we have horse and so retreated his axes as a safety measure, or he might be feinting round by Flugauto (who I think we should move back to sentry position this turn), or he may be planning to road that tile and come through Brick... Shall we offer white peace?
(October 30th, 2013, 18:33)Old Harry Wrote: - BoP hasn't got tiles to grow onto, it needs whipping, or it could give the fish back to Agincourt
Fish back to Agincourt, BoP could start a galley now.
Quote:- Agincourt could start on a library
Agreed.
Quote:- Cannae can grow in three if it sacrifices a cottage to work the unimproved sugar
Is the tile yield 3/0/0 or 3/0/1, I should remember.. If it's 3/0/0 I prefer cottage, if it's 3/0/1 I can live with both.
Quote:- Dunkirk grows if it works the dye, do we want the overflow in a chariot (potential super-medic morale chariot) or store it for something else?
Let's work those dyes. I'm unsure about the build here... Do we want start some infra here? Chariot is not terrible option in our situation.
Quote:- Jamestown should build a spy once it runs out of other stuff to do.
Ok. Let's whip granary this turn though. What do the workers around the city do now? If suttree stays away from that jungle tile, we could start farming that corn as long as a spear covers our worker/workers. Or do we finish the mine/mines first?
Quote:Oh, and Hykepholos killed the axe with 55HP remaining. Pictures tomorrow.
Quote:On your questions:
I think we wait and see what plako and Ichabod say before offering other deals, I don't like offering open borders to our neighbours as that encourages scouting and what they don't know they can't covet, but I know how much you love money so I'm torn...
Quote:Shall we leave Brick where he is, as that's a tile they might want to come through and he can make it hard for them. In fact is it worth roading it?
Hmm.. Roading that jungle is at least not the first priority. I think Brick can stay there for one turn so that the lonely axe does not come to visit. After the axe has moved away, Brick can return to our zone defense tile. We should not be too afraid of suttree invading there as discussed previously.
Quote:Suttree may have seen we have horse and so retreated his axes as a safety measure, or he might be feinting round by Flugauto (who I think we should move back to sentry position this turn), or he may be planning to road that tile and come through Brick... Shall we offer white peace?
Yeah, let's keep the flugauto there doing sentry movements. And as discussed in the chat I can't see a way how suttree could have spotted the chariot. Does he have a contact with dtay though? I'm remembering he does not.
And let's offer white peace! Who knows what he thinks! I'm quite willing to take all my ranting back if he does not throw everything at us..
![[Image: PB%2013%20T106%20dtay0000.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/j3ao62kvpbuzvo4/PB%2013%20T106%20dtay0000.JPG)
![[Image: PB%2013%20T106%20Ichabod0000.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/dydo6zadkhaacji/PB%2013%20T106%20Ichabod0000.JPG)
Instead of making most out of the deal we are trying to make us a friend here..![[Image: PB%2013%20T106%20plako0000.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/qc8ynb3k8usrhg2/PB%2013%20T106%20plako0000.JPG)
![[Image: PB%2013%20T106%20suttree0000.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/g9pbj95o6krlbyo/PB%2013%20T106%20suttree0000.JPG)
