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WW29: Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood
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Just quickly from work: Jkaen, scum-play isn't necessarily anti-town play and vice versa but that doesn't mean it can't. I personally would put MJWs general play into anti-town play, though not for the reasons most do (distracting etc.,). In this particular instance though what I didn't like was his obvious contradiction between stating not to talk and then talk. The play itself is just anti-town (because it leads to exactly these arguments now, because it is distracting to some, because it might get others to talk in the night [what as I stated already I personally think has a higher chance to be a loss for town than a win]). So, again, that play is imo anti-town. But the contradiction hints for me to a scum-play. Now that is something we can disagree about of course, especially if you believe night-talk is beneficial to the town (though in that case you should suspect MJW for actually trying to suppress night-talk...). But I personally don't see why a townie would do that kind of play. I don't see scum doing it either, you wouldn't get away with it imo. But MJW does get away with it because he is MJW, so I do see scum-MJW doing that. Would I see town-MJW do it? Yes. Actually I would. Doesn't mean I won't call it out. I called Q a few games back on something everyone disagreed with me and gave me fire for even bringing it up because it was such a minor point. But in the end I was right.
(The last part is not meant as bragging btw, just to point out that sometimes you have to call out small things and see what happens.) (October 31st, 2013, 06:24)zakalwe Wrote: Jowy, do you have any thoughts that don't revolve around why Rowain was killed? Yup and I will let you know about them if they evolve into new thoughts that can help us catch scum. Serdoa, MJW would be the #1 choice for a lazy miss-lynch the town usually makes on D1. I want us to stop doing that. If people find MJW the scummiest player and think that lynching him is our best chance to win, then I don't blame them for going for MJW, it's the right choice. But I will be very disappointed if he rolls town and tomorrow we have a bunch of villagers saying that they didn't really want to vote for MJW anyway, or that it had to be done.
With a lazy lynch I mean the common phenomenon here at RB that the town ends up killing the easiest to lynch target instead of the scummiest target, just because it's so hard to reach a consensus. I know that it's a team game and compromises need to be made, but lately the town has just been losing and losing, something needs to change in how we play.
Tally as of post 154:
3 votes: Serdoa (novice, Goreripper, Jkaen) 3 votes: zakalwe (MJW (ya that one), Lewwyn, Meiz) 1 votes: GoreRipper (Jowy) 1 votes: Novice (zakalwe) Voting history:
I have to run.
(October 31st, 2013, 07:47)Jowy Wrote: With a lazy lynch I mean the common phenomenon here at RB that the town ends up killing the easiest to lynch target instead of the scummiest target, just because it's so hard to reach a consensus. I know that it's a team game and compromises need to be made, but lately the town has just been losing and losing, something needs to change in how we play. I haven't voted yet for that reason Jowy. I don't have the time currently to read through all posts thoroughly but I very deliberately did not rush to vote MJW at the start of the day, despite my night-"vote". (October 31st, 2013, 05:22)Jkaen Wrote: So i guess right now I see Serdoa and Meiz as scummiest I like Jkaen's post that concludes with the above, as it's the same shortlist I arrived at earlier when generously eliminating suspects until I was left with only two. I'm willing to give Serdoa a bit more time to contribute before I vote to lynch him, though. He just hasn't given me enough to read him as town yet. If he's town and finds the time to step it up a little, I think it may shine through. (I'm not saying we can't lynch him today. But I don't feel like voting for him right now.) Meiz really hasn't been convincing, either. If he's town I guess his story is essentially the same as Lewwyn's; he's confident in MJW being town and therefore wants to lynch me. But I can definitely see him as scum, too. He may have been on thin ice with his no night talking stance yesterday. It did feel a little like he was having to improvise some arguments there. And it seems unlike him to build cases based on the night kill, when it should be easy to see that the night kill tells us very little. Part of the reason I voted for Novice was because I noticed he was setting up a trap for Goreripper, which he has now sprung. His question/accusation against Goreripper is perfectly reasonable, but it's the same style of scumhunting that he applied in WW28 on day 2, and also the same that I applied then, for that matter. Look for a logical inconsistency and seize on it. Meanwhile, he's giving us very little in terms of impressions and feelings. Of course, that's very similar to how he plays as town, too, so it's pretty tenuous, but he does tend to sprinkle in some gut reads as town. Anyway, that's why I asked for more active play from him. The "set a trap and wait" scumhunting style is too easy to emulate, and it makes me uncomfortable when that is all I see from him. As already mentioned, Goreripper is spot on his village baseline in terms of tone, IMO. It's hard to say how much to emphasize that, since he could be an excellent scum player for all we know, but it is at least a little reassuring. He did have a couple of posts about night talking that felt a bit shaky, but I'll still need some more convincing to vote for him.
If you know what I mean.
(October 31st, 2013, 07:55)novice Wrote:(October 31st, 2013, 06:58)novice Wrote: Goreripper, why were you so eager to get me to admit to a positive bias towards Zak if you already had a town lean on him? Yes a clever trap where you get to show off how useful you are we get it. Let us take a trip down memory lane to the post though. (October 30th, 2013, 08:13)Goreripper Wrote:(October 30th, 2013, 04:11)novice Wrote: I guess we're talking, then. My problem was not with a defense of Zakalwe. It was with an attack on MJW just for his usual useless babbling insane attack on Zakalwe. Basically you were biting lynchbait. There are only three reasons you did this. You are scum and happy to have a nice lynchbait target. You are reflexively defensive of Zakalwe and took his attacker more seriously than he deserved. You actually assumed some sort of pretty scummy cognition on the part of MJW. I believe it is the second which means your tasty bite of MJW was due to taking him more seriously than his meta game attack on Zakalwe deserved. Because you take Zakalwe attacks seriously always. Even if it is a loon honking at him in a way that worries nobody sane.
By the way Serdoa take your time please family is definitely more important than a silly forum game.
But. (October 31st, 2013, 08:04)Serdoa Wrote:(October 31st, 2013, 07:47)Jowy Wrote: With a lazy lynch I mean the common phenomenon here at RB that the town ends up killing the easiest to lynch target instead of the scummiest target, just because it's so hard to reach a consensus. I know that it's a team game and compromises need to be made, but lately the town has just been losing and losing, something needs to change in how we play. Reads to me like a frustrated mafia who planned on making a good solid lynchbait case but is getting called on it. You are a strong town player normally so prove me wrong by all means after reading. But you seem more mafia than Zakalwe to me so my vote stays for now. |
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Are you, in fact, a pregnant lady who lives in the apartment next door to Superdeath's parents? - Commodore |
