[SPOILERS] Back to Basic - Mardoc plays Augustus of China

[Mardoc]

So apparently Ruff didn't really need that stone much:



New City. Gets its Missionary next turn, and it'll be there to milk the Colossus for all I can get once it's got that Fish inside borders.



Commodore pointed out to me that Hill Tundra Deer is only a three food tile. So I'm thinking this instead, to get a lot of grassland. Maybe later I can plant a filler or two to work the coast. I won't be building the settler for another 10 or so turns, though, I'm putting up a Market in Roy first. And it won't hurt to delay it a bit until I get the current batch grown up just a smidge.




Finally, I'm ready to attack soonish. Probably next turn will be only bombardment, and the turn after we'll go in. Lots of spears for my axes to fight .

[Mardoc]

Random thoughts that are better than doing work:

Should I take Twinkle's worker? Letting him complete that chop probably means another spear or Gallic when it's time to go in. I can only reach with a HA, which would leave me vulnerable to counterattack. But any counterattacking forces have to end outside the city...

I lean toward 'yes, take it'. I'm short on workers, and any fighting I can do somewhere other than inside the city is probably for the good. But maybe I need to also move an axe to block the road, so if TT wants it back, he's got to use many units.


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It's about time for Vaarsuvius to delay its library production long enough to get three workboats out - one for each of O-Chul, Lien, and Hinjo. They're not popping borders quite yet, but they will be soon, and I want to have workboats in place when they do. Elan's going to keep making missionaries until I've got all of New China with culture production. And Haley needs a Market badly. Once these are done, it'll be about time to get Courthouses up; even Roy would save two and a bit gold, and I can definitely use the EP, too.

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I'm pretty much floundering on my tech path now. Nothing seems like obviously the right answer. I don't have the hammers for more wonders at the moment, so I'm ignoring the Music/Aesthetics line. Plus I'm pretty sure Ruff and maybe also Sian are there already, so they should have a head start on me, even if I did have the spare hammers. There's been a Great Library and Great Artist both showing up in the event log, after all. I don't see much else that's economic and near, so I've just been drifting toward Optics. I'll need ships if I'm to handle Sian, after all. cho-Ko-Nu's would be handy to have as well, that'd be something useful for Elan to construct.

Hoping that Sian's island is small enough that I've got a big headstart on circumnavigation due to my galley. Or that Ruff gets circumnavigation - worst case is Sian being able to fork Old China without me being able to retaliate.

What's a good path through the Classical age into the Medieval? Or are you supposed to have an economy ramping up at this point so it doesn't take long enough to debate?

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I think I'm just about to the low point for my GNP. I've got 5 cities at size 1 and 2 at size 2, plus my pre-war core of 6 cities at decent sizes. Those new cities will almost all be growing rapidly onto commerce tiles, soon. Most of them require a granary filling or a border pop, all of which I'm working on. I'm only planning to add three more cities to my total count anytime soon - two currently Celtic cities and the one I pointed out last turn in south Celtia. On top, Hinduism spread is making major cash for Haley, and I'm finally getting Courthouses and Markets put up in the core cities. And cottages keep growing, of course. Once my new cities have a) food improved inside borders b) granary c) granary filled, then my status will improve very fast.

[Mardoc]

I, um, hmm. A second city ruins? What the heck is Ruff doing over this way, anyway?



Twinkletoes continues merely to build up and fortify. I'm debating whether I've got enough to go in next turn, or if I should wait once more. I've a couple units that could heal a bit, and taking the tile defense down would be handy...on the other hand, I don't want to let him reinforce, and the 4 of War Weariness in Roy could really use a good eradicatin'.

He did finish the chop and apparently delete the worker, so that's one dilemma removed from my consideration.




In other news, I noticed something that should have been in progress a while back. I've got a strong core, including a very hammer-rich city, and a lot of peripheral cities that need a boost. And I'm Ind, and I'll have stone as soon as the game will let me cancel the deal with Ruff (7 turns). Sounds like a textbook opportunity for Hanging Gardens. Therefore...pause the Market, build this instead. I might have a bit of a wait for the stone after finishing the Aqueduct, but I can put that to good use by whipping in the Market just before getting back my stone. Or I can just go straight for the Gardens, and accept a mere +100% instead of +200%. It's still very much worth doing.

[Commodore]

My vote:

[Mardoc]

So part of why I'm nervous about going in is remembering Gergovia being awfully close, despite taking defenses to 0 before going in. But I went back to my report for that one: Twinkletoes had 21 units! This time he's got 11.

My army's smaller, too, but it should still be sufficient, I think. Especially because he's pre-wounded and not really fortified. And I have more promos than last time, while he's got fewer.

Last time I had 8 cats, 14 HA, 8 axes, 2 spears and a chariot. Total of 25 hitters + 8 cats.
This time I've got 6 cats (2 wounded), 7 HA, 7 axes, 1 spear, 1 chariot. Total of 16 hitters + 4-6 cats. And on top, the unit mix is better for me, some of my axes probably get to fight spears.

I think I've managed to talk myself into attacking rather than waiting for another 24% of the wall to come down. Although we'll see if I still think that way tonight. It's really a question of how much it hurts me for TT to get more healing, more reinforcements, and more

Gotta decide how to use the wounded cats. 4% off the walls isn't much - but I don't know that 0.5/5 cat can accomplish all that much, either. How does collateral work from wounded cats? Does it decrease, or do I still get the full dose, just miniscule odds of damage to the top defender and retreat?

[Mardoc]

Here's what I'm against. Note that he's gotten another Gallic, while I've got no close reinforcements. Decided I had to go in, therefore.




First the very wounded cat bombarded. By chat, Commodore informed me that collateral effects are minimal for wounded cats, so this was the best it could do for me.



Then five more cats go in, all lost . But they did some serious damage in the progress!



Then it was a simple matter of sending in the hitters. Lost 2 Axes, had 1 HA retreat, and no further losses. Total losses: 5 cats, 2 Axes, and a bunch of HP. But I've still got a GG medic, so HP loss is rather temporary . Still, it'll keep me from blitzing TT's last city. Need to heal up first.

TT lost his whole stack, and also the GG that was born mid-turn in Tolosa


All that survived is the wonder, but hey, I'll take it


Also...holy cow, I love catapults! Lost 7 units to kill 12, in a 50% defense tile no less. I only wonder if I could have done even better next turn

Next turn, we promote and heal and peek in on TT's last city. If it's not really defended, then we might skip the heal step and just charge.

At home, nothing much newsworthy. 2 more Hindu spreads, otherwise just a lot of growing and infrastructure slowbuilding. Didn't even pull out the this turn. At least the Hanging Gardens still hasn't fallen.

[Mardoc]

More comments later.

[Mardoc]

So, a couple more good bits and a couple more bad news. Good stuff: had two turns this morning! In half an hour or so!

Bad: Twinkletoes attacked Tarquin with his axe, and won - something like a 10% odds fight for him. Deleted the axe, which cleared the path to finish him off. Although I could probably have killed the axe anyway with a unit from behind Tarquin, so deletion was probably the right move to prevent me getting more XP. But it means the army I started this war with, is now mostly dead.

Bad: Ruff got the Mausoleum of Mausellos the same turn I finished TT, and then the turn after fired a Golden Age.

Bad: Sian built the Apostolic Palace. Presumably he's got Christianity well spread and the hammers for monasteries and temples, as well.

Good: Hanging Gardens is still available. With the war over, I have immense extra happiness in all my cities. And a lot of them. Roy finished the aqueduct, and I think it makes sense to just go straight for the Hanging Gardens despite not being able to have the stone back right away. The Gardens are worth a lot - 15 pop! Plus the GPP, plus the health. So I'll spend somewhere between 100 and 150 base hammers, depending on when I get the stone back, instead of just 100, but it's worth it to minimize the risk of losing it and to get that boost earlier.

I'm also still straggling along at the bottom of the GNP chart, although I did have a major boost in the last couple turns: stopped paying Unit Supply and my unit maintenance bill also shrunk dramatically . From here, though, it's a lot of little things that'll help: Markets/Courthouses/Libraries, growing cities, growing cottages. I don't think there will be any one big event that saves me, just a steady accumulation of a few commerce here, a few there - multiplied by fifteen cities. The only thing I expect to be big is finding a trade route to Japan, doubling a lot of my trade routes immediately when I do that. I'm debating if I should open borders with Sian once Lien's borders pop - on the one hand, he's got the Great Lighthouse and a GNP lead, so it'll help him more than it helps me. On the other hand, I've got more cities, and I'm probably ahead on anything but GNP - it may be a larger fraction of my GNP. It might be moot, if trade can't pass ocean even inside borders, though.

I think my tech path needs to be straight to Optics, to try for circumnavigation, then Hereditary Rule to hook up my new wines, then I'm not sure after that. Maybe head toward Guilds for Grocers and medieval defense tech. There's nothing that's particularly urgent for me, though. I still need to catch up on building out the things I've already unlocked. And there's no point aiming for wonders until I get my GNP back to a respectable level, as the last two turns have demonstrated.

In other news, Vaarsuvius whipped out a workboat for Lien, and is now working on WB's for O-Chul and Hinjo. I'll probably whip once more; I really want them ready the turn borders pop. All three have Hinduism now, so their big growth spurts are coming soon. Elan's got four more Hindu missionaries to build, then either workers or Cho Ko Nus (or catapults). Probably workers. I really could use a dozen more workers, I'm just not sure where I can afford to build them.

Hinjo has Sugar this turn, a 4 food tile. I think Hinjo and Lien will be in a race for 'first profitable'; Hinjo's got more food, but Lien's got more hammers and a head start.

I'm going to heal the army, then disperse it. I'll set up a nodal defense in the west and one in the east, and send the HA out scouting the rest of the main continent. Probably pretty soon only the catapults will be worth anything, though. I'm pretty sure the Great Wall will keep the barbs out even though I didn't build it myself, so I don't have to worry much about garrisons, and Ruff/Sian should be to units that laugh at axes and spears by the time we fight. I certainly can't afford to attack anyone until I've got New China profitable.

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I'm working on a 'ancient era war lessons learned' post, to describe my understanding of ancient war (for people to mock, of course ). May be a few turns before I can get it complete, though.

[Commodore]

After Civil Service, I hope?

[Twinkletoes89]

GG Mardoc, we've pretty much already discussed the general stuff but its a shame that the map pretty much ensured an earlyish war between us while blessing the others with a degree of isolation.

If I hadn't messed up and bet wrongly on the tile flipping to my culture, I may well have been able to burn your city and relieve the cultural pressure on Gergovia. Live and learn I suppose.

The promotions on that Gallic Swordsman might be the worst group I've ever seen applied to a Great General.

It kinda makes sense if you realize that Twinkletoes gave up on surviving and was just looking to burn things. Those promos give the Gallic the best mobility it could have, I think, which let him go over to Ruff's border and surprise-burn a city. Which in turn only worked because Ruff has no metal or reason to expect a war.

Of course, that just pushes the question back a step. Can't explain why the response to me invading is to burn something Japanese.

On this, it was basically a matter of wanting to burn something out of frustration and with you having HAs and well into my territory, I couldn't burn anything of yours. So I knew Ruff was defending light and had a decent chariot way aways from our fight burning barb cities for upgrade money so I decided to use the GG to go burn something of Ruffs and hopefully prod him to get defenses up. When you see the terrain fully, you will see why I needed those promos to get there fast enough - even though they look hideous in most other contexts

Anyhoo, it was fun and thanks for doing a good spolier thread on this so there is at least some record of the game. Shall be interesting to see what happens next.