RB Pitboss #1 Spoilers - Joai of the Incans - Krill/Memphus

[Yazilliclick]

Yeah his reasons for it can't be known for sure but he is at least one of the few people contacting us and so far communication seems amiable. Guess goal one would be to feel him out so some more and see what his relations appear to be with others and can move from there with him.

That and decide what the path is in the sunrise/regoarrarr area. I like your idea of aiding sunrise in settling the area but may be hard to get him to and he may let regoarrarr know and ruin that. So may be more a case of settling them and then gifting the cities themselves which is a bit more in regoarrarr's face.

[Krill]

Yeah his reasons for it can't be known for sure but he is at least one of the few people contacting us and so far communication seems amiable. Guess goal one would be to feel him out so some more and see what his relations appear to be with others and can move from there with him.

That and decide what the path is in the sunrise/regoarrarr area. I like your idea of aiding sunrise in settling the area but may be hard to get him to and he may let regoarrarr know and ruin that. So may be more a case of settling them and then gifting the cities themselves which is a bit more in regoarrarr's face.

And that was exactly what I was thinking we do. We also get control over the positions, and if we keep our army in position until they are gifted regoarrarr can't really do much about it, so...

[Yazilliclick]

OK that's the way I'll play it then. I'm guessing it makes more sense to settle them first (or get in position) and offer only after to sunrise rather then telling him and giving regoarrarr more of a heads up that he's in a race?

[Yazilliclick]

Started implementing the plan. LL finishes settler next turn, PP finishes one the turn after. LL will have a 50h carry over for another settler.

AA just finished a missionary that's headed to PP but will likely save for one of the new cities. Switched it to build a galley now so we have some way to get a settler to the island. Not sure what to pump out next. In about 4-5 turns we should have gunpowder and chemistry by the sounds of things though.

CC is building settler that will go on the galley.

HA killed one of the barb archers defending, is at 4.1/6 now. Have an elephant moving in that direction.

Split our main stack and directed some mini groups of units to the NE. Most weren't right on the lins border (was keeping them away) so they may not see the move unless they have spies but they will see some moving.

Workers are starting to get busy building road in the area.

[Yazilliclick]

Sent the following to regoarrarr to delay negotiations.

Hey Dan,

Sorry it's taking me so long to get back to you on this, things are
just crazy and haven't had time to do a dot map of the region and work
out spots for the both of us that I think would be fair.

To show good faith though I've begun work on clearing out the
barbarian city to demonstrate my intentions are not to take it as a
surprise settlement or something of that nature.

Regards,
Yaz

Had a nice long chat with munro. Admitedly gave up more info on plans with reg then I probably should have but I doubt he's going to spread word and it should help build a level of trust. The big thing is we now have a 40T NAP with Munro that will auto renew requiring 15 turns notice to break it. He's also going to take one of missionaries and may want to trade for unit to build HE. I read the discussion and it seems this wasn't ruled against but nobody wants temp city trading? Not sure what we should ask for for it though.

7:45 PM
me: Hey Munro
10 minutes
7:55 PM
Munro: Hi there
7:57 PM
me: Got your email about a peace agreement.

As far as I'm aware there was never anything official between our civs.
7:58 PM
Munro: Are you up for agreeing something?
7:59 PM
me: Yeah I think it'd be a great idea. I was thinking maybe something with a longer starting period though than 15 turns.

Munro: That would be fine with me. What did you have in mind?
8:01 PM
me: Well I wouldn't mind seeing something like 35-45 turn opening NAP period that will auto renew for say 15T if neither us gives at least 5 or 10T notice.
8:02 PM
Obviously I'm flexible on the terms
8:04 PM
What are your thoughts?
8:05 PM
Munro: I think it'd be easier to have something that just keeps rolling over indefinitely until one of us gives notice

but I'm happy agreeing to a longer initial period before that kicks in
8:06 PM
but I think the rolling agreement will just be easier to keep track of

because there isn't anything particularly to track
8:07 PM
me: Yeah it'd be easier to track but I like having a longer initial period. Feels more like it's something solid
8:08 PM
And obviously have no intentions of attacking you so figure a rolling one would carry over that long easily anyways.
8 minutes
8:16 PM
Munro: How about rolling peace with 40 turns minimum and 15 turns notice required to break
8:17 PM
so earliest either of us could give notice would be 25 turns from now

but no action required to keep extending it after that

and 15 turns notice required to break at any point after that

me: I think that sounds good.
8:18 PM


Munro: ok - cool

I'll put it in an email so we each have a record of what we agreed

in fact - no need

looks like gmail cleverly does that for us
8:19 PM
me: Yup clever gmail

Munro: btw - any chance of getting a missionary off you at some point?

I'm probably going to run a specialist economy

could do with some more temples to get some Great Prophets out for the last religion

or at least some shrines for the ones we already have
8:20 PM
me: Yeah I can hook that up for you.

Munro: cool, thanks

I'm not in the game at the moment but I'll check what religions I do(n't) have

I think i only have 1 so far..

me: I can let you know probably tomorrow when I can squeeze it out. Just made one but it's needed on my other border.

Munro: sure - thanks
8:21 PM
me: btw do you have much contact with Imo considering how close you two are in game?
14 minutes
8:36 PM
Munro: none at all
8:37 PM
me: hmm well that's disappointing. I haven't had any either. Was hoping you had perhaps some insight into his plans.
8:38 PM
Munro: well, I'm planning to offer him the same peace treaty we just agreed on

I'll see what kind of reaction I get
8:39 PM
I'm slowly getting to know my neighbours

me: I suspect 'positive' but I'm getting the impression he's just coasting in the game and not really putting any effort in

hehe yeah takes time.
8:40 PM
Munro: doesn't seem like he's made much of a dent on regoarr

even though he and shady both attacked at the same time
8:41 PM
me: Well that was the plan.

I managed to get some news from shady though and apparently Imo seperated his forces from shady's and rushed in for no reason and lost his stack.
8:42 PM
Munro: my praetorians, my beautiful praetorians ..

all gone

well, ruff's praetorians

gone to the great big forum in the sky

me: Maybe, I'm not sure what he had in the stack exactly, just that shady told me it went 'poof' for absolutely nothing.
8:43 PM
So now they're basically stalemate or on the defensive potentially which sucks because reg needed to be hurt considering his size.
8:45 PM
Munro: yeah

me: Especially disappointing to me as I was rushing my expansion in that direction to get nearer him to help out hopefully.
8:46 PM
Now it feels like I may be sticking my neck out when they might just take a NAP soon
8:47 PM
Munro: oh, while I remember

something I meant to ask
8:48 PM
is there any rule or code of ethics against gifting units to unlock HE, WP etc

your xb killed that last barb warrior before I got a chance to level up ... :|

would be good to get my HE hooked up sooner rather than later

do you have any XP10 / level 4 units that you would swap for something?
8:49 PM
or lend temporarily?
8:51 PM
me: I seem to recall they had a discussion on it, just trying to find it.

Oh and about my expansion to help against reg please don't spread that around even in NUTA. Don't want any details accidently slipping out.
8:52 PM
Munro: sure, no problem

would anyone be surprised?

doesn't sound like anything particularly controversial

aren't we all trying to expand and help each other ?
8:54 PM
me: Somebody might be

surprised that is.

Munro: who's that?

me: reg

Munro: he isn't already expecting you to help your allies?
8:55 PM
me: Oh I'm sure he thinks it's possible it could happen but as of yet we haven't shared any borders.
8:56 PM
Plus he knows Krill had just finished a war against the lins and sunrise so there's still some tension there although there's a nap.

Munro: I see

so he may not be expecting you to settle next to him and declare on him directly?
8:57 PM
me: He'd probably be pretty surprised hehe It's a rather large undertaking.
8:58 PM
Anyways I found the posts about gifting and they don't seem to have 100% agreed one way or the other but leaned towards unit gifting allowed. I think it may have happened earlier.

It's on page 64 of the IT thread.
9:02 PM
Looks like I have at least one 10XP unit. If you want to send me an email about what you propose there that'd be good. I need to run.
9:04 PM
Cya

Also felt him out about imo and tried to spread a bit of dissatisfaction there. Bit surprised he's had no contact at all considering how close they are.

[Yazilliclick]

hmm no idea how I missed it before but they do have guilds. Must have forgotten I don't have feudalism yet.

Anyways new turn, nothing big. Settler is done and on it's way to ZZ and AB/OO is refounded (with a guard this time ).

Our borders also expanded at NN and we got the cows.

[Yazilliclick]

There was never any discussion about you getting experience from the barb city. You did propose that perhaps I give you the gold from it or give you the city but as I said then there's no way I'm letting anybody else settle that close if I have a say and I stand by that. The only way that city lives is if I'd taken it as my own.

As to settling I've looked at it and I've decided the situation I'd be content with is the same deal that sunrise and I agreed to. No city within four tiles of mine or my mainland. That middle land belongs to nobody, whoever gets anything there is getting a bonus above and beyond their territory, especially when talking about you and I. Sunrise and Lins may have a claim as it's somewhat their mainland though a bad place to expand for them. As such what you're negotiating is quite frankly silly for me to agree to. You're asking me to give you permission to take resources from cities that are my mainland or for all intents and purposes part of it (that island on it's coast) in exchange for nothing that is yours to give.

I've reread our discussion, I've taken my time looking at the map and I can't see it any other way than this.

So to sum up. I'm declaring my intent to settle that island in the future and as it being part of my mainland. The fish are resources that would fall in it's borders and I would expect, taking them by close placement of a city and culture war would be considered hostile.

Placement of other cities in that region closer than 4 tiles to my mainland cities would be considered a hostile move to snatch up territory and resources.

Beyond that I have no problem with you settling anything that falls outside those areas.

-Yaz

I've not sent this to regoarrarr, wondering if there are any opinions?

I think my goal has become to diminish regoarrarr and preferably before he can fully grow in his region.

I've had a long chat with shady about his war and he's unfortunately moreso on the defensive but he thinks it won't be a problem to hold out and threaten regoarrarr's borders. Imo's troops are gone including all the units Ruff/Munro gave to him so he's useless and I made sure to mention that so he can hopefully be prepped for a future target.

I don't think any cities settled in that region should go to sunrise for this plan of hitting Dan on his border but should make sure not to settle too close to sunrise's borders so as not to cause unecessary tension and to decrease his ability to hit those places if he tries due to mobility.

[Yazilliclick]

Further thinking on this and I'm rather certain it's the way to go but maybe a bit blunt but I think something needs to be done to keep NUTA happy and shady fighting at least.

Action Items though would be:
1) Get some sort of commitment from Munro for aid to do this, preferably units if he has some to spare which he should since he's not fighting.

2) Look into befriending sunrise or lins and seeing if they can be convinced to fight each other. Looking at the map I think lins may be a good choice as their power is higher and they're more boxed in from what I see so may be happier for an opportunity to expand. Not sure how to bring that about but could sell it as the opportune chance with their other allies in trouble and a promise to occupy regoarrarr so he can't help sunrise.

3) Get mhk involved somehow. Probably their units since they aren't using them. Get them shipped to shady to fight with or shipped up through munro to us. Might be able to try guilting them into that due to their non-war with broker.

If regoarrarr goes down than that means their real top contender for the game on UTA is gone. He's their largest member right now and as such may be what's holding them together. If we can unite NUTA to get him down then UTA is just a sweep up unless NUTA falls apart (which it probably would) And if it does then if the items above were handled then we should be in good shape to have allies on our borders except for Imo who'd be a weak target.

Just my not so experienced thoughts.

[Krill]

1) Definately. Problem is, we really need cuirs at hte least, or maybe cannons for it to be worthwhile, short of him and use dismembering Imho. And as much as I want to do that, we need alot more infrastructure, more cottages, more pop and more cities to even contemplate that (FFS, we'd end up bordering reg on both sides!)

2) Good luck. Best way may be to tell Lins that we don;t think the game will go the distance, and that we may as well have some fun while hte game lasts, aka war with sunrise. NB, we are still planning to win, but that infighting is importnat.

3) Lib Steel. Get mhk to build research everywhere, running max research and get everyone te send them gold. Do this, and the war restarts with one hell of a bang. Then mhk can go to war with Broker (nationhood heklps there)


On that email, that is exactly how I think (and kudos on saying it so succintly!). But telling regoarrarr what I think probably isn;th te best thing to do right now. Which is why i suggest that we talk to sunrise about gifting him cities in a couple of turns (ie on monday if the game moves) once the settles are almost in place to settle the cities, and the units are in place to defend them.

If regoarrarr goes down than that means their real top contender for the game on UTA is gone. He's their largest member right now and as such may be what's holding them together. If we can unite NUTA to get him down then UTA is just a sweep up unless NUTA falls apart (which it probably would) And if it does then if the items above were handled then we should be in good shape to have allies on our borders except for Imo who'd be a weak target.

Just my not so experienced thoughts.

That's exactly right. If we have to go to war with regoarrarr (us declaring, with units in place...) we do a 3 way chat with Lins and sunrise and tell them straight up that we think the alliances are about to fall apart, that we only want to dent regoarrarr, and that our entire empire is on military build up (which it will be), both drafting, slaving building and not even expanding. Point out that last time I was slaving from a grand total of 4 cities and I took them on 3v1 and reached my objective, this time it is everything, all 20 cities (that's how many we aim to have in that scenario) against them. And We aren;t going to tell them what objective we have.

Dreylin is a good player, he'll probably go paranoid at that. sunrise will probably be more belligerant and say "we can take him", but if you offer a longer NAP until around t225, another 30 turns beyond what we already have down, they will probably think about it quite seriously, especially as I doubt they'll break the currant NAP which runs until around t190 anyway.

[Yazilliclick]

Well I've been chatting with people a bit tonight (will post shortly) and know now that mhk has an actual NAP with Broker atm (not sure for how long) so not much chance he'll be hitting him soon.

DSP is not going to be able to do anything to Elk any time soon other than harass with a stronger navy.

Imo got all his units busted including what Munro gave him.

Shady thinks he'll continue fighting against reg but more so defending and harassment. He doesn't think he'll have any problem defending against him.

I liked the idea of giving cities to sunrise before but thinking about it I'd say it just helps sunrise and reg and hurts us in the long run. Lins is somewhat cornered and without help breaking out (through sunrise being the logical direction) he's going to be nothing but a kingmaker unless he's got some far flung hope to pick up chunks for our territory.

Reg and Sunrise though make a great pair though as sunrise is no threat to reg but both can help each other quite a bit. If we give cities to sunrise there it just makes them bigger allies and gives more help to reg in his attacks against shady and imo. Not to mention would completely alienate us from NUTA I'd say.