[SPOILER] The Steak, Beer, and Cigar Saloon

[haphazard1]

If the copper site/area was going to be the 6th and 7th cities, splitting the resources would probably be the way to go. But I think getting a very strong 2nd city is important.

Of course, all plans are subject to change as more scouting info comes in. As always.

[Catwalk]

Turn 22
Started Mysticism in anticipation of the next scout move. May change it depending on what the scout sees next.

[Catwalk]

haphazard1, when do you guestimate that Hinduism and Buddhism are likely to fall?

[haphazard1]

haphazard1, when do you guestimate that Hinduism and Buddhism are likely to fall?

I have no idea, really. No civs starting with Mysticism == everyone has the same amount of research to do, so it all comes down to who is interested and their commerce. But if anyone was really interested, they probably would have taken a civ that starts with Mysticism.

Of course people can change their minds later, especially once they notice no one started with Mysticism. My take from the choices is that most players want to focus on early worker techs. However, the sizable number of IND civs almost certainly mean at least a few civs are thinking Oracle, which will push them towards the religious techs. But how soon? I really have no idea.

Not much help, I know. But I just don't have a feel for when we might see a religion founded.

[Catwalk]

But if anyone was really interested, they probably would have taken a civ that starts with Mysticism

I didn't think of that, that's actually a really good point. I guess I should look and see when Oracle builders typically grab a religion, as that's most likely what we're up against. It's very tempting to skip the early religion plan altogether, provided that the spot between copper and rice is a good one. I can't get Animal Husbandry right away anyway, so I'm not in a major hurry to pop borders there. Getting the religion is definitely a setback to our development, I'd be able to grow the capital sooner if I had more useful tiles to work there. I'll need to make a decision next turn, based on what our scout sees on the coast.

[Catwalk]

Turn 23
Surprise!

So there was land up there after all. Not sure what this means for our settling plans, I will go NW - back - NE - back with my scout next and then get back to the deer site. I forgot to switch away from Mysticism this turn, but it shouldn't matter much as long as I want Mysticism sometime soon. Need to make a decision next turn, though.

In other news, Jowy revolted to Slavery last turn. Not concerned or surprised by that, just a reminder that hooking up copper is a good idea.

[Catwalk]

Turn 24
Visitors!

Jowy popped by to say hi with his scout, he has visibility on our capital from the hill SE of it. Sucks that he found us, but good thing that we know about it. Our scout revealed no seafood up by the oasis. I'm going to try to continue NW with our scout, hoping that there's land access with the lands to our west.

I'm sticking with Wheel research (have 1t total in Mysticism), the way it looks right now I likely won't pursue the early religion plan. Started farming our wheat, Jowy won't be able to screw with our micro as the worker is already on the wheat. He technically double moved me, but it had no consequences here. Had he used a double move to get on my wheat before my worker could get there, I would have objected.

I've dotmapped lands once more, it's basically the same as what I had earlier. I've put a tentative order on the sites, only ones that are fairly certain are 1, 2 and 3. Ivory has a terrible place at #7 right now, I can probably bump it up to #4 or even #3. #3 is more of a long-term site, and is at less risk of being poached than #4 is. I'm also going to suffer economic suffocation without at least one luxury fairly early on. The copper city is placed next to the copper to avoid relying on an early religion. If I went for the rice spot and failed to get a religion, I'd be pretty screwed. The rice spot also isn't appealing, so it's an easy decision. I thought about moving brown dot S, but I see no real benefit and it'd invalidate the blue filler city. I'll definitely want #5 before #6, as that lets me work seafood in #6 right away while waiting for culture and another workboat.

[haphazard1]

I had been assuming there was more land in the north. Certainly narrows down more than I expected, though. You will have a pretty good seal with the copper city controlling that area, and maybe it will be possible to grab another city further north later.

On Jowy showing up, not much you can do about it. He knew you were reasonably close from your visit to his capital, so it makes sense that he wanted reciprocal info.

Ivory at #7 does seem far away, but I can't really argue with your ordering. This just means you need to keep cranking out settlers steadily.

[Catwalk]

Turn 25
Nothing much to report.

Jowy's scout backtracked, I'm guessing he came from the southern route and wants to explore the rest of the lands between us. He's in for a wet surprise

I'm sticking with Wheel research, followed by Pottery. It seems wasteful to get early Slavery without also making granaries a priority. I might take a shot at a religion after Pottery, I don't need Animal Husbandry or Hunting quite as urgently even though they're nice to have. I'll also want a monument or a religion before Animal Husbandry anyway, as I can't work the pigs until I pop borders.

I read mackoti post elsewhere that early chopping is a good option when you don't have resources to improve, but building extra workers just for sake of chopping is wasteful. That's basically what I'm doing here. Was that a bad choice? I could have gone worker => warrior => settler instead, getting the wheat online sooner. Anyway, 2nd worker is done next turn and will start chopping.

How do you feel about settling the food site and the ivory site as #3 and #4, in either order? Or possibly #4 and #5, getting the deer site first.

[haphazard1]

I think the second worker will be very useful, so I would not worry about having spent the time to build it. More than that would probably be a diversion from more profitable activities until you have more tiles to improve.

With the standard caveat about needing more scouting info I like the big food site as city #3 or #4. It is a really good site and will lock up important territory between you and Jowy. The ivory site is a tougher choice, since it will be further away (higher maintenance costs) and will require more effort/time to really get it going and to defend it. Since it will provide happiness it would pay off nicely, but there should be a lot more info available about the west by the time you need to decide. There may be superior sites to the west, or closer borders with another rival, that make settling that direction more urgent.

On tech, it is hard to go wrong with Wheel and Pottery. Granaries, FIN cottages on all those river grass tiles, roads...a ton of things to like and delaying religion is unlikely to cause much harm even if you miss out on early religions. It would be very nice to get a holy city, but should not be a major problem if it does not happen. And in the mean time you get very useful things that will boost your growing empire significantly.