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Adventure 59 - haphazard Asoka (incomplete)

Like many others, I am reporting an incomplete game. frown Just too busy with too many things through the holidays to finish on time. But I do plan to complete the game and will update my report later. For now, a quick summary.

I drew Asoka of India, not a leader I have played very often. Spiritual/Organized should be interesting, and of course the fast worker is excellent. I decided to not make any special effort to claim the special Christmas trees, and just focus on the game as usual. I would try to keep track of how many I ended up with, but I suspect many will easily out-do me. On the trees, and on the game! lol

I decided to go for an early religion, even though it would almost certainly be suboptimal play. I rarely do so, and thought it would be interesting. Since the pot luck info told us all Spiritual civs were in the game, I went for Polytheism and hoped others would all try for Meditation. The gambit worked and I founded Hinduism in Delhi, which I settled 1E of the start on the plains hill just north of the clams.

I got a map from the hut, revealing Egypt to the west. My exploring warriors (built while chasing religion, since a fast worker would have had nothing to do for a while) rapidly found Spain and Mali as well. Justinian took a while to show up but I eventually had a good idea of the world. I decided the key to the game would be pushing hard to the west to claim the center of the apparent pangaea and gain enough territory before the AIs locked down all the land. I would have to avoid early conflict so I could focus on grabbing land and then hold it until I was strong enough to start eliminating my rivals. An economic crash was likely, but getting cut off by the AIs did not seem like a good path to victory.

I began expanding west, and got very lucky with two barb cities spawning early in good locations with only warriors defending. I had an axe at the leading edge of my expansion and was able to capture the first city despite Hatty having a warrior of her own buzzing around looking to take the city. Libyan was located just east of the two tile lake with the Christmas tree tile. Using the XP gained, my axe took woodsman II and rushed further west to capture Teoihuacan, located by the plains cow at the river bend. Hatty again was present with an archer and tried to take the city but failed, and I managed to poach it right out from under the nose of her other archer. smile

With this foothold in the west, I then rushed settlers forward and claimed the ivory/dye cluster location with Calcutta followed by Lahore even further northwest than Teoihuacan at the horses/wines/gold/clams/flood plains location. Placement of Lahore was a difficult choice, and I ended up putting it one off the coast to claim the horses. I would have to find a way to get a work boat up there eventually, but Mansa had claimed the nearer horses with Djenne and then founded Christianity in the city to make it culturally unassailable.

With all these distant cities my economy completely cratered, falling to 2 gpt at 0% research with Lahore's founding. Ummm, oops? lol It took a long while to start digging out, but library scientists and adding more and more cottages eventually got me to Code of Laws and my organized courthouses. Still lots to do to rebuild my economy, but 30% breakeven is a lot better than zero.

The game currently stands at 200 AD. I have the most land and cities, and am leading easily in food while being close to the leaders in hammers. But I am dead last in GNP and soldiers, and am behind at least a couple big techs (Currency to Hatty, Theology to Mansa and Justinian). I don't have Alphabet yet to know exactly where I stand, but it is not good. frown At 200 AD I do not yet have Hunting lol, or Masonry or Meditation or Mono. I am closing in on Calendar to hook up the multiple plantation resources I control -- the dyes at Calcutta will be especially welcome for the commerce. Currency will be next, and maybe eventually I will be able to run science above 50% someday. lol

The big question is will I get attacked before I can consolidate my economy and get back into the technology race. My power is back of the pack but not by much. However, I really only have axes and my neighbors' chariots could tear me apart with ease. Probably need to get Hunting somehow, but even that is a multi-turn tech right now. (At 200 AD! lol) Isabella and Mansa are Buddhist and like me a lot (but not friendly, despite +10 from Izzy). Justinian is the only Hindu (that I founded but never adopted lol) and hates everyone. Hatty is Confucian and is the biggest rival power, and our relations are right at breakeven. If I can somehow survive the next few centuries I expect it will come down to her or me.

Here is a look at my western holdings. On the mini map you can see that my empire is...rather strung out, isn't it? lol

[Image: T123westernholdings0000_zps31abec7a.jpg]

But at 200 AD the game is very much an open question. To be continued (hopefully soon)....

And oh yes, current Christmas tree count is five. The cows by Delhi at the start, the forested farm on the island south of Delhi, the forested lake tile by captured Libyan, forested horses at Lahore on the north coast, and the forested city ruins at Pataliputra a short ways northwest of the start. There are several others just outside my cultural control, but I am unlikely to get most of them before the AIs reach them and chop them. As noted, this was not a priority for me.

Thanks to T-Hawk for sponsoring and handling the admin of this game! I hope we see more games here at Realms Beyond, and I hope to participate and actually finish on time. banghead
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(January 13th, 2014, 21:32)haphazard1 Wrote: I got a map from the hut, revealing Egypt to the west. My exploring warriors (built while chasing religion, since a fast worker would have had nothing to do for a while)

Ah - here's the real reason your start was so slow: To call an early religion rush "suboptimal" when you lack all of the (thre different!) techs you need to hook up your food tiles is quite an understatement! If you'd gone Fworker first though, you might almost have gotten away with it: India does start with mining, and far from having nothing to do, he could have mined the gold! That tile's commerce might have been enough to make up the beakers you gave up with the Poly chase, though of course you'd still be behind a more conventional start on food and hammers.

Of course, it would also have helped to luck out as I did when I popped The Wheel from that hut with my borders instead of the map your warrior gave you.
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I knew going for a religion was going to set me back a fair bit. That's why I almost never do so. lol But I was feeling a bit whimsical and decided to go for one just because it would be different and interesting. Of course, I rapidly learned I was next to Buddhist founder Isabella and very early Buddhist convert Mansa, and not wanting conflict that early I ended up never actually using Hinduism. So it was indeed a huge diversion and waste. Oh well, I knew it was unlikely to be a good idea.

Popping a useful tech would have been big. One report (can't remember which one) mentoned popping TWO techs, including HBR -- talk about some luck!
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Way to break out of the peninsula - although not without some problems. Did you do anything with the islands besides the one xmas tree noted? Also you mentioned getting your courthouses up - what about FP? Usually its not a huge deal in Civ4 but your linear expansion would be the poster child smile
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As of the turn where I stopped, I had not done any naval exploration at all. I did not even know there were any islands out there. I had built one galley to colonize the Christmas tree plains farm one, and was lucky enough to survive a barb galley dice roll combat.

Getting the FP up somewhere out towards the center of the land mass was in my plans, yes. But none of the farther cities were mature enough to build the FP yet. Libyan is the best candidate (just east of the lake Christmas tree), although I would really prefer a bit further west. But Calcutta amidst the dyes has very few hammers yet. The FP will likely go up eventually, but it is some ways off still.
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(January 14th, 2014, 04:11)haphazard1 Wrote: I knew going for a religion was going to set me back a fair bit. That's why I almost never do so. lol But I was feeling a bit whimsical and decided to go for one just because it would be different and interesting.

Yeah - this turned out to be a great, whimsical map for doing fun, whimsical things!

Quote:Popping a useful tech would have been big. One report (can't remember which one) mentoned popping TWO techs, including HBR -- talk about some luck!

Yeah - looks like WilliamLP got fishing and HBR ... although as Egypt, and with no Horses within TWO million miles (only Byz and Spain-once-they-have-galleys had any within ONE million) it may not have been as amazing as it sounded. (On the other hand, it does help to unlock Adv59 Egypt's real UU, as timmy827 demonstrated.)

(January 13th, 2014, 21:32)haphazard1 Wrote: But at 200 AD the game is very much an open question. To be continued (hopefully soon)....

I hope so! Intentionally sub-optimal play was great for this Adventure, as AIs without bonus units tend to flail around helplessly at first. It sounds like you've got the makings of a really interesting game, and I'd love to see where it ends up!
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(January 15th, 2014, 09:53)RefSteel Wrote: I hope so! Intentionally sub-optimal play was great for this Adventure, as AIs without bonus units tend to flail around helplessly at first. It sounds like you've got the makings of a really interesting game, and I'd love to see where it ends up!

Thanks for the encouragement, RefSteel! I have played another 650 years, to 850 AD. Mostly this was an era of consolidation, rebuilding my economy and developing the far-flung cities I had strewn across the center of the continent.

Cultural pressure from the AIs has been a massive problem. frown Everyone except Isabella (who is presumably off settling islands) crammed in minimum distance cities wherever they could fit them, and I lost gold, ivory, corn, cows, and 2 dyes to them. cry The horses are at 50/50 with Justinian's culture, but Lahore is 2 turns from popping borders again which should keep them under my control. Probably. I have put a lot of hammers into cultural buildings to try to stem the erosion.

Economically I have reached breakeven at 70% research, and now have a commanding lead in GNP. I have gotten ahead of the AIs in a couple areas -- I reached Music 1 turn before Hatty and got the great artist, which is going to help solve some of my culture issues for the dyes and ivory. smile But am still trailing by a number of techs (Mono, Theology, Feudalism, Metal Casting) against all the AIs.

I shifted to no state religion to reduce diplo negatives with the AIs after Mansa built the Church of the Nativity and converted to Christianity. This broke up the Buddhist block of Mali/Spain/India, leaving every AI with a different religion. I have had one request from each AI to convert, damaging relations slightly all around. frown But it has worked so far to avoid large negatives with anyone, keeping all the AIs at cautious. This has been crucial, as my military stinks. I have slowly been building units here and there, but my relative power has been sinking steadily.

And now this last turn Mansa has gone WHEOOHRN. yikes He is annoyed with Justinian and cautious with me, but they have roughly equal power rankings while I am significantly weaker. My defenders barely even qualify as cardboard cutouts. frown I have shifted research to Feudalism for longbows, but may not have time to get many (any?) in place. I have hooked up the stone to allow cheap walls, but I need numbers more than anything right now. Production is being shifted but that will take some time. I don't see a Malinese doom stack anywhere, but due to my geography Mansa could hit any of 6 cities within a couple turns. frown Oh well, I knew this was a risk. We will see if (and how badly) I get burned.

So life in haphazard India may become very exciting soon. lol We shall see. Hopefully Mansa will take some time building up -- 5 turns could get a few longbows out. 10 turns could get a longbow + 2 other units (axe or spear) for each city on the border with walls everywhere, although that will hurt badly from emergency whipping.
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(January 16th, 2014, 13:34)haphazard1 Wrote: I have had one request from each AI to convert, damaging relations slightly all around.
You're Spiritual. Take all those requests happily. You get a (nearly?) permanent +2 net diplomacy (+1 for converting, avoiding the -1 for refusing) even if you change religions again another 5 turns later.

Aggressive Mansa, guess not many games saw that. Good luck. Prebuild archers to have ready for longbow upgrades when you reach Feudalism, and you shouldn't lose more than one city. And adopt Vassalage even if you're already got Bureaucracy - the unit savings is surprisingly competitive economically and you can use the XP.
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(January 16th, 2014, 15:11)T-hawk Wrote: You're Spiritual. Take all those requests happily. You get a (nearly?) permanent +2 net diplomacy (+1 for converting, avoiding the -1 for refusing) even if you change religions again another 5 turns later.

I considered that, but I didn't want to risk the religion diplo minus with the other AIs pushing me into the annoyed range and causing them to decide to declare. Once they have decided on war, switching back to no religion and better relations will not change their minds. Maybe it was a small risk, but I decided to take the small hit with refusing the requests rather than risking the bigger war declaration. At least in Mansa's case it does not seem to have panned out.

A question: One turn I got "adopt our state religion" requests from both Izzy and Mansa. What would happen if I agreed to the first request? Would the second request still pop up? And if so could I "switch" again? Or would the second request automatically be refused?

(January 16th, 2014, 15:11)T-hawk Wrote: Aggressive Mansa, guess not many games saw that. Good luck. Prebuild archers to have ready for longbow upgrades when you reach Feudalism, and you shouldn't lose more than one city. And adopt Vassalage even if you're already got Bureaucracy - the unit savings is surprisingly competitive economically and you can use the XP.

Prebuild archers...hmmm. Just realized I do not have Archery tech yet. lol Going to have to stop and get that real quick.... crazyeye

On vassalage, I could use the XP. Giving up bureauacracy for my capital is going to hurt, though -- my capital has a ton of commerce and hammers. And I don't actually have enough units for the cost savings to apply. At least not yet, I should once I start building more units.

Maybe I should turn out a chariot or three to help deal with axes, since I have not seen any Malinese spears anywhere. Mansa can certainly build spears, so not sure how useful this would be. It also assumes I don't lose the horses to Justinian's culture. rant

Uh oh...just realized Mansa culturally stole the ivory. War elephant alert! yikes He has HBR (I have seen horse archers) but does he have Construction? Not all the AIs do yet, some were still researching it. Spears, need more spears.... Better break out the whip and get busy.
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The second religion request would not pop up, because you'd be in the 5-turn waiting period before you're allowed to switch again. AIs will never make a civics or religion request when you're not allowed to make the switch.
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