WW 31 Game Thread PARANOIA

[Ichabod]

Do you have a posting restricting Ichabod?

Yes, he got the happyster's treatment today. Still seems odd.

Ommmmmmmm!!

[Jowy]

Bob you piece of shit we had a deal.
Rowain your cryptic order got a townie killed, I hope you had more than just a hunch on this.

Thx for playing Harry. Just so you know, it's the town that sucks, not you. We always do this shit.
You might be frustrated right now, but I hope you stick around if you like the game. And it's normally easier to follow, games aren't as big

[Catwalk]

What deal was this Jowy? Sorry you had a rough time Harry, WW is often an exercise in frustration Don't take it personally, everybody's skills are insulted all the time, and usually unfairly.

[Ryan]

I'm sorry guys that's all I could give you was 1 night of info.... Oh well

[Jowy]

What deal was this Jowy? Sorry you had a rough time Harry, WW is often an exercise in frustration Don't take it personally, everybody's skills are insulted all the time, and usually unfairly.

He promised to roleblock Lewwyn if we let Lewwyn live. Apparently didn't give a shit about that promise after the storm had settled. I said it yesterday, I'll say it again: Bob sure is eager to first save and now let roam free a guy with a kill ability who he claims he doesn't even trust.

[MJW (ya that one)]

lol, I just noticed that serdoa claimed watcher. So harry likely wasted his bonus power.

goodnight

[Serdoa]

I didn't think that claiming does anything to sway anyone.

I was thinking it might explain your somewhat nonchalant attitude to being lynched.

I really just changed myself a little bit and try to take this stuff lighter (being overly competitive is bad for your health kids...).

-----------------

I want to point out this post by Gazglum:

This pretty much sums up what I don't like about the Novice vote. It's so much predicated on gut feel, tone, passivity, expectations. And they are all important things. I just feel that -today-, we have stronger cases on others. Serdoa and Harry also have had tone issues (for me, Serdoa's logic, Harry's jokes and defensiveness), they also jumped on the bandwagon at a more critical point.

Two things I don't like here:

a) Gazglum had just jumped on the wrong wagon D1, getting suspected for that. I expect defense, I expect reads... what I don't expect is that he tries to stir others away from a wagon. As villager you don't know if you are wrong or right, and if he is wrong, he signs his death most certainly by doing this. And that to save someone which he doesn't even claim that he feels is village, but just because he feels other cases are better? He even points out that "-today-" there are stronger cases, implicitly stating that the case against novice is good, just not the best in his eyes.

b) He points out that the votes on novice are based on gut feel and expectations and states that we have stronger cases. He then points to Harry and me, as these stronger cases, stating that our cases are also built on gut feel and expectations but we jumped on a more critical point onto Q. So basically there is no difference in the cases against all 3 of us, except that he decided that our jump on Q was more important than that of novice. We know that he was wrong with that in case of Harry and I personally know that he is wrong on me as well.

What I want to get with that is: This does read for me like scum jumping to bail out one of there own. Not outright stating that he doesn't believe someone is village (imagine what would happen if novice gets lynched and is shown scum) but still defending the player. Compare that to what I did in regards to Harry. Yes, I would have voted Harry if I believed it would save me, but I clearly stated that I don't see the case on him. Gazglum instead states "Yes novice is a good case, but we have an even better one". That doesn't sound honest to me.

And it doesn't get better when you look further down his post imo

The point about Novice starting the Q bandwagon with 'this is bad', is really interesting. If he is scum, that was a superb play, good work Novice. It -did- make me want to change things up, and he had laid the groundwork beautifully for Q to become the fall guy. Superwolf play.

That's so hyperbolical towards novice possible scumness that it can only be meant to implicitly carry the meaning "You have to be dumb if you believe that novice is scum".

But Novice's defence is totally true:

The reason I said "This is not good" on day one was because the votes were very spread out, and the top candidate (Azza) seemed to be there just by virtue of nobody having anything concrete on anybody else. Normally when someone's lynched on day one with 4 long-standing votes on them (which was what Azza had when I commented) they're most definitely not scum. Again, these are general mafia theory truths which I don't think require much elaboration, really.

It is bad to have the votes as spread as they were. So, again, I come back to thinking Novice is less scummy to me than Harry or Serdoa. He often starts slow and gets going as time goes on - like an avalanche.

Reiterating the point that novice isn't as scummy as Harry or I. Not "villager-y" just "less" scummy. And that he should be given more time. In gist: Don't lynch novice. And again I have to ask: Would someone having chosen wrong already and being heavily suspected really defend someone else like that if he didn't at least believe that this player is a villager? Would someone really go out on a limb like Gazglum here for someone he feels is "less scummy" than the top suspects? I don't believe that.

Btw I've gotta admit that it's looking more and more likely that the scum did gang up on Q on Day 1. I've been evaluating suspects separately without really thinking about any scum team compositions, and a lot of my suspects fall into the category of people who voted for Q on Day 1. If they fucked that up, it'd explain why novice isn't really giving a fuck, why Old Harry is all over the place, why Serdoa is eating humble pie.

I agree. I really think that some of the scum screwed up Day 1, it’s what makes the most sense to me.

Just pointing out something here: I am an experienced (scum)player and so is novice. Is someone really telling me that either of us decided that we would make a run for Q to save Azza? Someone that normally plays on his own and won't even tell you his role in the scum-thread if not absolutely necessary (that happened in a WW game I was scum with him)? And not only that, but in my case I even screwed further up and called my scum-buddy out in thread regarding his vote against MJW? But then was not only dumb enough not to act upon it but even did the opposite and tried to vote another candidate up? Tonight when I should have been sleeping I was thinking about Rowain pointing out the WW-game in which I tried to save TT. And I realised that if you believe I would play like that still, than you also have to believe that I would not incriminate my scum-buddy first but bail him out instead.

In gist as I said earlier: Maybe a scum was on Q, but believing that somehow scum as a whole screwed up and was on him - or that they even had the majority of the votes that pushed him - is just crazy

And apparently to Serdoa. I can’’t get over how he spent the day arguing the technicalities of focusing on Q voters, and then says his top three suspects are his fellows on the train. It feels to me that Serdoa spent the day trying to find other targets, realised there wasn’t a good case to be made, and so was forced to come back to me, Azarius and Novice for our posts; even while denying the validity of any case against him.

I already before you posted this had explained that I don't have an issue agreeing that someone voting Q most likely is scum. I have an issue solely looking at the Q-vote and taking that as the most important sign, ignoring other points. And I have an issue when people try to spin the Q-votes as a run by scum to save Azza.

[Serdoa]

@All: I'm sorry for fucking up the claim yesterday, my wife was already waiting for me to finish and come to bed. Obviously as someone pointed out when I tell you that Rowain has not taken part in the kills yesterday I must have watched what he did. What apparently means that I am a tracker, not a watcher. My bad sorry.

[Bobchillingworth]

Bob you piece of shit we had a deal.

I didn't promise you anything, you obstreperous cretin. I suggested blocking Lewwyn initially because you and Ryan had stupid votes on him and I was trying to come up with a solution to assuage your fears. After someone else gave their reasons for why doing so would have been a bad idea, I began to reconsider. At no point did we ever have a "deal"; after you became inexplicably enraged by my weighing of alternatives, I wrote:

I am completely willing to block him, if that's what the village wants- but I want to make sure that IS what people want.

So I asked for and received several other opinions, most of which were to not block him.


I don't owe you anything, Jowy. I'm not going to make anti-village moves in order to bribe you into not making completely moronic decisions. I will never apologize for soliciting the village for opinions, for acting on said input, for making what I felt was the optimal play, and I refuse to take any responsibility for your functional illiteracy. Just for once try to get through a game, any game, without pissing off half the players. This perpetual antagonism act is starting to wear really thin.

[zakalwe]

Bob, it takes two to tango. No need to be so offensive.

Thanks for playing, Old Harry. Do some venting in the lurker thread, and maybe you'll feel better.