AT's PBEM 58 Thread (or, AT Break's Bad)

[AutomatedTeller]

Standard "if you are a pb3m 58 player, please remove thyself from this thread."



This space reserved for random pics.






Rules:

No elephants
No nukes
No blockades
No huts
No events
No active espionage
No barbarians
No technology trading
No diplomacy

Bans:
Willem, Pacal, India, Inca

Map:

* It is not mirrored.
* It is 32x32.
* It has toroidal wrap.
* It is 20-25% water.
* It has no marble and no stone.
* Size is Standard. (Note: the size setting does not affect dimensions; it affects maintenance and tech costs, and e.g. number of theaters required for Globe Theater.)
* Difficulty is Noble.
* Unlike many starts, fishing will not be completely useless here. (But it's by no means needed.)
* Quick speed

Opponents:

eastway - Huayna Capac of Carthage
AT - Mansa Musa of China
Cheater Hater - Elizabeth of Rome
B4ndit - Darius of Ottomans
Twinkletoes - Victoria of Sumeria


Other useful information:

culture is 5/50/250/doesn't really matter.

Improvements:

On Grass/plain:

Road 2 turns
Farm 4 turns
Pasture 3 turns
Camp: 3 turns
Plantation: 4 turns
Cottage 3 turns
WS 5 turns
Mine 3 turns
Windmill 4 turns
Watermill 6 turns

On FP:

Road 2 turns
Farm 5 turns
Cottage 4 turns
WS 6 turns
Watermill 7 turns

On Desert:
Plantation: 5 turns

On Tundra:

Hopefully, I'll never care

On Ice:

Please, let me never have to care.

[AutomatedTeller]

I'll have to add some pics to that, at some time.

So, it's been a while since I have played a game here, between my computer issues and work. These guys all seem to be new here - I don't have any sense as to whether they are very green or not.

My goals for this game:

1) Have a plan.
2) Build as many chariots as I can. Lurkers find that amusing
3) Not have my capitol razed by an attack from the fog
4) win.

Mansa isn't standard for the #2 pick - Darius might have been better on a toroidal map - but he's ok and i've not played him in MP before. Fin is obviously strong and spiritual is excellent and requires an amount of planning for full use.

I'm debating going off the board with my civ pick - something like japan. though, I think I'll probably end up with ottoman or france. Egypt is great, of course, but I've played them. And, besides, I'm sick of playing civs with monuments as their UB.

[AutomatedTeller]

So, Mansa of China. I took China solely because of the starting techs (well, the UU is fun) - with no EXP leaders, being SPI means I get a growth curve on everyone - grow to size 2 while researching BW and whip out a worker and I should be able to get one before anyone else, plus be safe from warrior rushers while exploring.

The UU is meh - can be a lot of fun and give a lot of GG points with drill promos, but it's not really a great offensive unit.

Amusingly, my first ever PBEM was with China. I was not good...


oh - it looks like growth and whip isn't actually particularly faster than just builidng one, but I do get slightly more commerce and I get a 2nd warrior faster, so that's something.

[AutomatedTeller]

Well, I've done the single most important thing for the game, which is come up with a naming theme.

Breaking Bad.

Cities will be episode names, workers will be characters. Is there a way to change a thread title? I can never remember.

I'll start with Ozymandias, which is the episode that provoked George R. R. Martin to say "Walter White is a bigger monster than anyone in Westeros." Martin then adds, "I need to do something about that."

I mean - if it can make George Martin need to up his game....

[Oxyphenbutazone]

Hold down the cursor on the thread title to edit it

[AutomatedTeller]

Hold down the cursor on the thread title to edit it

Thx, Oxy!

[AutomatedTeller]

ok - so, pregame stuff:

Opponent Analysis:

Twinkletoes - Vicky of Sumeria. Fin/imp, vulture/ziggurat, agri/wheel. Solid choices, all - standard size and lots of land means that settlers will be necessary, and he should get his out fast. More importantly, #2-6 will be fast, too - he should out-expand us fairly handily.

Vultures are good, though not great in MP - they'll stand up to praets and numidians better than axes will, but are underpowered vs regular axes. Numidians will still kick their ass.

Ziggurats are good, too, being cheap courts, which will help on a toroid map.

I've played TT before - both in PBEM34g, where he wasn't very effective and in PB9, which his team eventually one, though I think most of that was Bigger. I don't have a good sense for how good a civ player he is, so I won't speculate. And, given that the other 3 guys are completely new to RB Civ, it's useless to speculate as to where people will end up. My best guess is a top 5 finish

B4ndit - Dairus of Ottomans - Fin/Org. Janissary/Hamman, Agri/wheel. Jannissary is a fine UU for gunpowder, since it has a bonus against everything but gunpowder units. Hamman is an ok UB, expensive, but 2 happy is nice. You won't build it very many places, and happy is rarely a huge issue in RB MP games. Probably is better on a completely random map, where you run the risk of have no happy. But is ok. Wheel/agri are probably the strongest start techs (which is why people like them) - he might well go pottery first (as might TT). Dangerous late in the game, but might be a target for one of the early UU civs (as might I)

Cheater Hater - Liz of Rome. Fin/PHI. Praet/Forum. Fishing/mining. My guess is that he goes WB first, researches BW and whips out the WB and then slow buillds a worker, though he might build a warrior then whip out a worker. That's probably the way i'd play it. Not sure what he's going to do - Praets mean "go kill" and he'll get a nice short term commerce boost from whatever fishing resources is available. There's a lot of stuff he needs - pottery, agri, AH maybe, Wheel, IW, so obviously, we won't get hit with praets right off. Forum is an interesting UB (which isn't to say it's good or anything) - but it cuts a small amout of time off the time for each GP. But then, building a stack of praets is not compatible with setting up a GP farm, so eh. My pure guess is that he gets bogged down in an early war and falls behind. Liz might be able to pull him out, though.

eastway - Huayna Capac of Carthage. Fin/Ind, Numidian Cavalry/Cothon. fishing/mining. I would guess his opening is similar to Cheater Haters. I have to assume he wants to attack someone with NUmidian Cavalry, because the Cothon seems like a not very useful UB on a 25% water map, particularly for a non-expansive civ (it's expensive!) NC are nicer in MP than SP, since the bane of NC are archers and humans don't generally spam archers the way that the AI does. I would expect him to pick up stonehenge - he may be the only one who tries for it, since he's industrious.

me - Mansa of China. FIn/Spi, Cho-ko-nu/pavilion, agri/mining. Spiritual is nice - gives me an immediate advantage in no issues with slavery - plan is to grow while building a warrior, then switch to a worker at size 2 and whip the instant I can, thus getting me a worker 0 turns faster!! But a warrior with some hammers in it and a worker that can either farm or chop out another worker or workboat, depending on what I want to do. My guess, without seeing the start, is that I go worker->warrior->worker->WB->warrior->settler or something like that. The map will dictate, to a degree, my plan - I definitely want a religion, but need to pick up the wheel along the way to pottery, which I definitely want. After that, a plan might be Oracle->Col, or Oracle->MC if I can get a forge in time to get a GE for mids. I don't think I've ever built Oracle in MP. Pick up techs that give me civic options and try to survive until either x-bows (cho ko nu!) or HA, depending on how i want to go. Quick makes Cho-ko-nu a little tougher, since people tech faster.

[AutomatedTeller]

I'm having some issues with images, which I hope to resolve, but until I do, I may not get many out.

So, my start:



This is why these sorts of maps are fun - gem on PH? 1-tile lakes with clams? Fishing is quite possibly a stronger start here.

As it turns out, with this start, building a warrior while growing to size 2 and whipping a worker is slower than just building a worker, so I will do that.

Still going to go BW, allowing me to chop out a 2nd worker/workboat.

After that, fishing->wheel and I'm not sure. Builds after the first worker: warrior, wb, worker.

My explored land:

A nice fish site there - lots of 1 hex seafood...



the demos show somehting interesting - with a high of 21, and average of 18 and a low of 17, my 4 opponents are making 21, 17, 17, and 17 bpt. I would be making 17 bpt if I was researching a tech with no prereqs - a civ with fishing should be making 19, at least. I wonder if someone selected the wheat by accident.

[AutomatedTeller]

ran a couple of sims.

I can get 2 warriors, 2 workers, a workboat and a settler by t26, pop 3 in the cap, with fishing, wheel, pottery, AH, mysticism and 1 turn left on meditation.

I can get the settler several turns earlier, but only get 1 warrior, so that seems dangerous.

I want to explore using W1 to chop out W2 earlier.

[SevenSpirits]

the demos show somehting interesting - with a high of 21, and average of 18 and a low of 17, my 4 opponents are making 21, 17, 17, and 17 bpt.

I don't know what your opponents are doing, but the average of 17/17/19/21 is 18.5, which would also show as 18.