WW 31 Game Thread PARANOIA

[Serdoa]

Novice, a no result is pretty much always the same as you were blocked. We even used to have rules banning that sort of thing! I find it very odd that you of all people would make this mistake, especially given as the interpretation you chose was in your favor.

Thanks for this statement Q. Which does of course lead back to the question: Did Ryan scan novice innocent or not? With the reveals it seems likely that MJW shot novice, so his wound is not a sign that he is village for certain. Ryans scan isn't as well. And we have two liars in our role-claims to boot. With novice having an awfully weak role, that does so totally not match Jowys (or anyones else really).

Overview for the interested:



Rowains and Merovechs ability are nearly the same, though Merovech sounds more like Jailer to me.

We miss:

- a watcher (who gave MJW the power to watch on N2)

Whom I think we can trust on their abilities:

- Serdoa (we know that I tracked sunrise because I voted for him before he explained what he did with novice, also I know where Rowain was N1)
- zakalwe (we know he controls the bot)
- xenu (except if he is scum together with Merovech and Jowy - this night should help to provide us with an answer to that. btw: xenu, look at this list, those that have a flavour name there are not valid targets for you )
- Mattimeo (someone does double abilities)
- sunrise089 (3 people claim the mental link - and if he is scum with Ichabod, zak and novice than I give up right now)
- Ryan (could tell us that Lewwyn can kill who definitely didn't tell beforehand)

And to a lesser extent:

- Rowain (I do believe his claim actually, but he had items that sound similiar to what he claims he did)
- Merovech (Old Harry didn't lose a life and no one else claims that, but Mero could be a full fledged jailer what kinda would be a roleblocker of sorts)

So that leaves as liars:

- Bob
- Jowy
- novice
- catwalk
- Ichabod
- Qgqqqqq

Thats actually not such a long list. One of you claimed an ability that he does not have.

[Jowy]

Sorry Azarius, it was my call. We'll get em for you
For the record, your post 3 min before DL was very towny and I knew I was wrong before getting to the results
Serdoa, my ability is confirmed by the night results and lack of counter claim
I'm still confident in my reads from yesterday even though I was wrong about Azarius.. I do think we'll find three scum in Catwalk, Bob and Ichabod.

[Jowy]

I would like to hear Novice's role flavor

[zakalwe]

In response to Serdoa - Jowy also claims to be the source of some extra clones that nobody else is taking credit for. So his ability seems partly confirmed.

In hindsight I do wish I had stayed on Xenu, but it didn't feel like it was going anywhere, and I wanted my votes to count. I had made my case but people just seemed more interested in hating on Rowain, for reasons that honestly continue to elude me. If I'm honest I did also have some doubts about Xenu after all his ranting. It does kind of make you think "ok, mislynching him would be harsh, better not do that". (As an aside, we really need to stop thinking like that, though. It may seem counter-intuitive, but appeals to emotion really should be ignored, because that also means that scum won't have to fake them, ultimately leading to a more pleasant environment.)

So I decided to vote with Rowain and Novice instead, just as Rowain switched to Sunrise. I followed him there because Sunrise was also a suspect of mine. Then Jowy pushed Azarius with a reasonable elimination-based case, and I flipped back. In short, I was trying to find a decent compromise before I went to bed.

Actually, looking back, we should have just bum-rushed Ryan. I was considering it, and I probably would have tried if I had been able to stay up until the deadline, because then I could always switch back to someone else if the attempt fell short. Oh well - now we probably get another result from him, at least. I have my doubts that he will show up dead in the morning.

By the way: this is role madness, and we believe scum don't have a role-blocker, or any way to tamper with investigation results? Why would Ryan be allowed to perform repeated investigations, if he is legitimate?

On the flip side, though... I would expect some investigative powers for town. We have claims of tracker (Serdoa), flavor seer (Xenu), kill seer (Ryan), and limited watcher (Q). If Xenu is scum, then maybe the others are town. Or maybe Ryan is a SK with an ability that is genuinely useful both for him and for town. That would make sense, except that he'd have to have suicided a life on N1, or be targeted by another scum faction. Which does not actually seem likely.

Ok, I think my takeaway from that rambling is that Ryan may be town, but his results should not necessarily be trusted if he is still alive tomorrow.

Speaking of which, Novice also needs to comment on this accusation from the grave.

I go from a strong town lean to the point he questions someone else's suspicion of me to voting to lynch me, with absolutely nothing stated in between. He says he does not have time to process the claims, but he likes mine and Qg's claims the least. Both of us had made our claims some time in the past, so he had plenty of time to think about and question them, and as I mentioned mine at least he made no comment on whatsoever.

[zakalwe]

If I were to lynch purely based on roles I would look at Xenu, Sunrise, Ichabod, Q, and Catwalk.

Role seer is just a classic scum role in my mind. (If Xenu is scum, he's probably a full-fledged role seer, not just a flavor seer.) The same goes for neighborizer. Ichabod's ability is comically weak. Q and Catwalk have convoluted abilities that look like they might be crafted to avoid too much overlap with other potential roles.

I guess if Novice/Jowy are both town, the same could be true of Ichabod/Sunrise. But when the setup includes both a weak and a strong version of the same role, it really looks like the weaker version is a filler. And Brick was quite explicit about wanting 20 players, so I would think he had a setup he was happy with and felt was complete, not a setup that had to be padded with weak filler roles. (In short, I disagree with Mattimeo's earlier recipe for how to set up a role madness game.) If the weaker version is NOT a filler, then I expect the weak and strong versions to have opposite alignments.

[zakalwe]

I forgot Bob. He also stands out, being the only player with a limited-shots ability.

[Rowain]

Azarius is more or less a result I did not really want but on the plus side at least all compulsive killers are gone.

Where I'm from "boy" can be a racially charged word to throw around, although you surely didn't mean it that way.

Rest assured that I don't use racial slures ever. I do apologize for that meaning.

Zak, I was trying to catch Rowain in a lie because I suspect him being scum. I basically have no shot in him lying about his role if I revealed my cards first. Which is what happened. So he didn't lie about his role -- but would he have lied if I hadn't revealed first? We'll never know now. I don't see how him revealing after me would have helped me catch him in a lie if he was lying, and catching people in lies is about all I can see my role being good for.

Xenu a scumplayer who has a role named regeneration (=doctor) would not lie about it. Think about why should a scummie lie about such a role? A villager might lie about it to keep himself save (and able to work), throw the scum off etc.

[Rowain]

Rowain, Q: Why the run on sunrise? We know his role is true

His role is for sure not a sign of villagerness. Neighbourizer is in fact a nice scumrole as you know.

But at the time I logged off it was Xenu at 4 votes followed by me with 3 sunrise, Azarius and Bob(I think) with 2.
I had to make a decision between pushing Xenu to 5, stay on Azarius (who could have voted for me), vote Bob(could also switch to me) or push sunrise who was already voting for me.

Xenu I believe to be town (I can't imagine scum trying to lynch the healer for 2 days and confessing that they knew he was a healer) and his role might become handy as we know somebody lied. So pushing him was out. Voting Azarius or Bob might bring their votes to me which brings me in danger or (if some of the others think a healer is more worth than an abilityseer) Xenu.

My vote on sunrise was the best method to keep both Xenu and myself alive.

[Mattimeo]

If the weaker version is NOT a filler, then I expect the weak and strong versions to have opposite alignments.

Yes, because giving us 'one of these two people are guaranteed scum' as soon as roles are claimed (which *will* happen at some point in role madness) is totally good game design.
Please, give BRick a bit more credit than that.

Azarius is more or less a result I did not really want but on the plus side at least all compulsive killers are gone.

That's not a plus side! Night-time carnage is fun to wake up to in the morning!

I'm not sure spacetyrantxenu's ability is going to be 100% effective at ferreting out people who've lied about their roles, though. For instance, my ability name is Levitation. Because Levite -> priests/holy -> pray to give people extra charges. Somehow. We also had Uncanny Luck -> Strongman, and Teleportation -> CPR/Quack Doctor.

[novice]

Overview for the interested:



Rowains and Merovechs ability are nearly the same, though Merovech sounds more like Jailer to me.

We miss:

- a watcher (who gave MJW the power to watch on N2)

Whom I think we can trust on their abilities:

- Serdoa (we know that I tracked sunrise because I voted for him before he explained what he did with novice, also I know where Rowain was N1)
- zakalwe (we know he controls the bot)
- xenu (except if he is scum together with Merovech and Jowy - this night should help to provide us with an answer to that. btw: xenu, look at this list, those that have a flavour name there are not valid targets for you )
- Mattimeo (someone does double abilities)
- sunrise089 (3 people claim the mental link - and if he is scum with Ichabod, zak and novice than I give up right now)
- Ryan (could tell us that Lewwyn can kill who definitely didn't tell beforehand)

And to a lesser extent:

- Rowain (I do believe his claim actually, but he had items that sound similiar to what he claims he did)
- Merovech (Old Harry didn't lose a life and no one else claims that, but Mero could be a full fledged jailer what kinda would be a roleblocker of sorts)

So that leaves as liars:

- Bob
- Jowy
- novice
- catwalk
- Ichabod
- Qgqqqqq

Thats actually not such a long list. One of you claimed an ability that he does not have.

Thanks Serdoa. To add to that:

Unclaimed kills:
Ryan and Lewwyn N1
MJW N2
MJW, Zak, novice N3 (although MJW vigging Novice is likely)

Claimed actions that didn't go through:
Gaz kills Old Harry N1 -> Mero kill-blocked Old Harry
Rowain protects Serdoa N2
novice donates clone to MJW N3

Actions N2 that can interfere with kills:
Rowain protects Serdoa (but Serdoa was still killed by Gazglum)
Merovech kill-blocks Ryan