RB Pitboss #2 [SPOILERS] - Pacal II of Greece! (Jowy & Yazilliclick)

[novice]

Rest assured, we read this.

The only thing I skip is very long chat transcripts as they tend to be unreadable. In those cases a summary of the chat is great.

[shadyforce]

Posting emails is encouraged. Gives us a chance to see how you conduct your diplo and get a feel for the relations in the game.

[Shoot the Moon]

Btw anyone actually read the e-mails? Might be less spammy for you guys if I stop posting most of them, if you'd just scroll past them anyway. Me and Yaz can check everything from the e-mail account.

I certainly do, although you probably won't see me commenting on them, as I am thoroughly spoiled for this game

[SleepingMoogle]

Same for me, and as Shoot the Moon already noted, it can be tricky to comment on them without accidentally spoiling something.

[Yazilliclick]

Archery is discovered and scout's out. Next build is an archer, which will take 5 turns. Which tech next, Iron Working or The Wheel? I'd say IW first because the worker will be busy chopping for a couple of turns. Don't mind if we go for TW though.

To-do list:
- Choose: IW or Wheel? (We can change to Wheel without losing anything)
- Test different workpaths for settler/worker combo. (5 turns time to do this)
- Send e-mail to accept NAP with Rego (gonna do this right after this post)
- Scout goes south, ask about Dantski when closer.
- Pre-chop the riverside tiles.

Yaz, from your post in the RPB1 IT thread, I assume you really got the job and have to leave for a couple of months, am I correct?

Yup I got the job, I'm gone Friday. *May* be back online in very limited fashion Monday but I don't know what the net connection exactly will be but it will be poor and I'll be working ridiculous hours. Won't be able to connect to game.

TW or IW? We don't have a viable copper near us yet do we? If not then IW makes the most sense unless we need more happy faces from hooking up the furs I think.

[Jowy]

Yup I got the job, I'm gone Friday. *May* be back online in very limited fashion Monday but I don't know what the net connection exactly will be but it will be poor and I'll be working ridiculous hours. Won't be able to connect to game.

TW or IW? We don't have a viable copper near us yet do we? If not then IW makes the most sense unless we need more happy faces from hooking up the furs I think.

See ya 2010 then.
We got enough happy for size 5. Gonna whip soon though. It'll be OK. Let's go for IW first.

White = Regos reply to our NAP proposal.
Green = My reply to his reply.

[COLOR="PaleGreen"]Hey Dan thanks for the fast reply.
I'm going to divide your post and answer to the quoted part below it [/COLOR]

> We actually intended a 100 turn from now NAP (i.e. till T139 at this point)
> but if you are only willing to sign one till T100, that would be
> acceptable. Obviously there are variations to how the NAP can end. We can
> either just have a firm end date of T100, or a rolling 10 turn extension
> until someone cancels it, or an automatic extension. What are your thoughts
> on that? We were kind of thinking of something like, after we get to the
> end (whether it's T100 or 100 turns from now), either civ can cancel it with
> a 10 turn notice. That gives us both time to make defensive plans if
> needed. It will be interesting to see how alliances shape up in this game,
> as there is no tech trading.

Let's go with turn 100 for now, if that's OK with you. The game will change quite a lot and there will be many different factors that can break or make peace. Nothing against you personally, but I don't want to have my hands tied for so long. Of course if everything goes well between us, then we will sign a new NAP. The 10 turn cooldown period is fine with me. Let's get back to the 2nd NAP discussion before turn 100, and if we agree to a new NAP then let's just have it start right after this one ends.

> As for the settling plan, I think that makes sense. That is why I prefer to
> think of a NAP as a "Non-Aggression Pact" rather than just a "No Attacking
> Pact". So while I think that we would like to accept the NAP in principle
> (depending on what we agree about length / terms) but it also makes sense to
> at least start talking about border agreements. As you mentioned, it makes
> no sense to agree to a NAP only to find that your "friend" has settled right
> on your doorstep.

> I don't know how much you were able to scout in our direction before your
> warrior / scout died. We have a bit of map knowledge in the area between us
> but it is not complete. And obviously we're a bit hampered by not being
> able to share screenshots. Still, in the near future we should be able to
> figure something out. I don't know if we need to have a formal settling
> agreement but at least a general idea might be good, so that we're at least
> on the same page.

> I would just hate for us to agree to something like "no aggressive settling"
> and then we have a difference of opinion on what that means. You settle a
> city that we were going to settle, we think it's aggressive settling but you
> feel like it's closer to your capital than ours, etc. Or vice versa.

[COLOR="PaleGreen"]I agree. I couldn't really think of anything else than what I said, and following it in "good faith". But what you said is true and we should make a clear agreement that we can't disagree on.
Border agreement in the NAP terms would be great, but if we want to include that in this NAP, then we have to wait till both have scouted the area between us.

~ Jowy[/COLOR]

Novice / Shadyforce / ShootTheMoon / SleepingMoogle: Alrighty then.

[Jowy]

Anyone non-spoiled who wants to join the crew while Yaz is away? (and maybe after that, don't see why not). Though doubtful that I find someone who only reads our thread.. I know that I wouldn't pick a thread of two strangers if I wanted to follow just one

[Jowy]

Anyone know a good article that explains whip mechanics? (like how many hammers you get, the overflow and when you can whip for -1 pop and -2 pop etc., stuff like that). I use whip often, but I've been using the BAT mod which calculates that stuff automatically. Can't use that in pitboss.

[Jowy]

Hey Dan

> Okay, so we are agreed with a Non Aggression Pact (NAP) till Turn 100. If
> we have not extended it, there will be a cooldown period of 10 turns, at
> which point (T110) we will smash and bash each other with spears or axes or
> swords or whatever the implement of choice is at that time. Does that sound
> right?
[COLOR="PaleGreen"]
OK. No complaints. Consider it signed.[/COLOR]

> As for the border agreement, here is my thinking. By my calculations, our
> capitals are about 13 tiles away from each other. I'm not sure if that's
> close or not for this map. There is a river that runs NW-SE between our
> lands. It is about 5-6 tiles from each of our capitals (different amounts
> at different times as it winds). So what do you think about this -
>
> We agree that neither one of us will settle our first 2 cities near that
> river. That way we can focus our initial settlements towards other folks,
> knowing that we will have a fair and equitable division between us. It's
> hard to say now with part of it in the fog (and not all strategic resources
> revealed), but my best guess would be that we will each get a city or two on
> this river - it really does seem like a pretty good division of our lands.
>
> So what do you think about that? We could say - no settlements near that
> river for another 30 turns or Turn 70? Does that seem reasonable?

[COLOR="PaleGreen"]That river is awfully close to our capital and would be a shame to leave it be as a financial leader. I haven't scouted enough yet to say for sure, but I do feel that the river was "meant" to be on our lands. Hopefully we can work out a better way to divide the lands. I'll of course have to scout east myself before setting anything in stone. Maybe forget about the river and use other landmarks once we have enough information. Anyway I do agree that we should leave some spare space there to prevent 'our borders to spark tension'.

~ Jowy[/COLOR]

I want that whole river. Excellent location for commerce cities and they would be naturally connected to eachother. Also way more resources than towards Sullla.

Pictures unrelated. Kinda. Athens rocks.

[Kyan]

Athens rocks.

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Which one?