I looked up Catwalk's claim. It came spaced out in four posts spread over one game day. It also came after MJW had claimed his polymorphism ability. So I think Catwalk didn't want to claim Absorption as his ability name since that sounds like MJW's ability. Also he had no reason to think he'd be rolescanned, by his own admission he didn't expect town to have a rolecop.
(January 23rd, 2014, 10:37)MJW (ya that one) Wrote: My ability is polymorphism. Whenever a night ability is USED against me I gain that ability. Someone watched me on the first night. I watched Lewwyn this night and saw Serdoa and two other players visit him. I also have the ability to kill now from my clone dying. I assumed lewwyn lied about his night actions after Serdoa said he saw someone move and was sure lewwyn was a wolf. So I voted for lewwyn right away after never talking about him.
We should obviously kill Serdoa first so we get access to lewwyn's role before killing one of the "vigs".
(January 23rd, 2014, 14:25)Catwalk Wrote: I wish to confess that I too have a kill ability. It's conditional, and I don't wish to say what that condition entails. I have not succesfully hit anyone yet.
(January 24th, 2014, 07:40)Catwalk Wrote: I would rather not go into the specifics too much. I'm not limited by charges, but I wouldn't consider my ability particularly strong either. What do you make of Rowain's secrecy?
(January 26th, 2014, 02:17)Catwalk Wrote: I did go after MJW tonight, in a sense. I didn't succesfully hit him, though. My ability is Paranoia: Each night I pick a target to defend myself against. If that player tries to kill me, I dodge the bullet and shoot that player instead. MJW did not target me though, and I didn't hit him. I was concerned he'd target me due to accusations he made against me later in the day, and I also suspected him of being a serial killer due to his ability to hoard more abilities.
(January 26th, 2014, 03:39)Catwalk Wrote: I'm almost certain he didn't target me, based on how BRick has been wording my night messages (and I got the same message tonight). There is a possibility I'm just reading it wrong, though. I targeted sunrise on N1 and Mattimeo on N2.
I find Catwalk's idea that he would be a good double up target over, say, me to be very strange. Actually, I'm kind of surprised I haven't already been given double powers.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
(February 3rd, 2014, 03:21)Merovech Wrote: I find Catwalk's idea that he would be a good double up target over, say, me to be very strange. Actually, I'm kind of surprised I haven't already been given double powers.
pfft, you're just saying that to hide the fact you can double-block tonight, aren't you?
-- Don’t forget.
Always, somewhere,
someone is fighting for you.
-- As long as you remember her,
you are not alone.
(February 3rd, 2014, 02:24)Mattimeo Wrote: Mattimeo, in the event that Xenu hangs, I think I'd be a good target for your power. My ability becomes more useful the closer we get to the end game, and I hope to have a decent portion of town cred if Xenu is exposed.
[/quote]
It's not that; it's a play towards someone established to like meta-reasons to do things; "keep me alive because you *know* my claimed role is useful, especially in the late game which we're fast approaching". Problem is, scum would be silly to target a bomb-variant (even if confirmed town) when there are two other confirmed town to hit (and they just got rid of the doctor, too). That'd take us to 6; MyLo if there are 2 scum left. So, even if the claim is true, it's *not useful* like he's making it out to be.
Also, specifically appealing to me to keep you alive so I can use my ability on you is *really* not the way to gain my support. Especially with a reactive ability. That is, as mentioned before, actually not that useful in our current situation.[/quote]
You were asking for suggestions, I gave you one under certain conditions. I'm not arguing you should hang Xenu based on this, I'm arguing that I'm the best choice if he does hang. Merovech can protect others, but not himself. With Rowain dead, he's undoubtedly the next to die unless he's scum.
Agreed that people seem to like sitting back and seeing how thing develop. To be honest, I'd fain do that myself, but if I don't post every time I get a chance I'll go through an entire phase with one or two...
(February 3rd, 2014, 03:20)novice Wrote: I looked up Catwalk's claim. It came spaced out in four posts spread over one game day. It also came after MJW had claimed his polymorphism ability. So I think Catwalk didn't want to claim Absorption as his ability name since that sounds like MJW's ability. Also he had no reason to think he'd be rolescanned, by his own admission he didn't expect town to have a rolecop.
Which admission is this? I claimed after several killers were revealed, strongly suggesting that this was a vig heavy setup and with people arguing that we should hang based on that. I wanted to chip in on that discussion, both in order to establish that kill abilities were common and in order to not hang later if I was scanned (by Ryan).
(February 3rd, 2014, 03:21)Merovech Wrote: I find Catwalk's idea that he would be a good double up target over, say, me to be very strange. Actually, I'm kind of surprised I haven't already been given double powers.
As written above, I think I'm an excellent target *if my innocence is established today*. Do you disagree with this?
Actually kill-ability is not common this game, at least for town. Because lets look at it, what do we really have?
- Gazglum, Azarius: Town-Vigilantes who have to kill
- Lewwyn: Who was a doctor that can kill
And that's it. The reason you claimed could as well be that you knew that Bob is a communist and when he got caught you realized you have to claim now rather than later. Especially as that would lend more credence to Bobs claim of being yet another killer. Actually, that is a pretty good reason for you to claim as you did.
I found 4 known kill roles (including my own) to be a high number. I don't think it was a bad decision to claim, and I believe novice told me at the time that it was the right decision to make.
By kill role, I mean a role that can kill and will be identified by a kill seer as such. What do you think the outcome would have been if Ryan had scanned me the following night? Or if Azarius had been scanned? By revealing I also narrowed down Ryan's target pool by one, giving him a slightly better chance of catching a killer. I don't think my play to reveal was a bad one. I had a very low chance of hitting scum at night earlier on, and I would have run the risk of hitting a vigilante instead. My main concern was survival, both to avoid a mislynch and because my ability grows more useful in the end game.
Claim 1: I am lying.
- I made up a flavour role for whatever reason
- I fought to protect the town seer, in spite of knowing that he presented a major threat to my fellow communists
- I made an early killer claim without being forced to, supposedly to protect Bob
- I got scrubbed by fellow communist Bob on his last night for absolutely no reason, he needed no further town cred merely to survive his last night. This play only makes sense if he suspected I'd be able to kill him or Zakalwe.
- Xenu's posts extolling what a newbie he is and how assholery we all are for calling him inactive were all genuine
- Xenu's reveal post where he claims to not have noticed that he "caught" me was genuine
Claim 2: Xenu is lying
- Communist Xenu decided to fabricate a seer result that I cannot disprove in order to mislynch me before going down himself
- I told the truth about why I revealed part of my ability when I did
- I fought to protect the town seer because I believed him to be innocent and a massive asset in the end game, especially with doctors to protect him
- Xenu's posts extolling what a newbie he is and how assholery we all are for calling him inactive were at least partly crafted
- Xenu's reveal post where he claims to not have noticed that he "caught" me was crafted
I don't think my case is weak, and the strongest point in my favour is that I'd never fabricate a flavour name. What possible motive is there for doing so? I think you misread me novice if you say that I said I didn't expect there to be a role seer, this is the only mention I can find:
Quote:Also, why would I lie about my flavour? I have absolutely no reason to do so. If anything, Paranoia sounds more suspicious than Absorption and it's not uncommon to have flavour seers (especially with everybody having a role). Flavour seers are useless to the town, and the role alone makes me think he's scum.
That says the exact opposite. Also, please consider the implications of each of us hanging. If Xenu hangs as a villager, you have lost a useless seer. If I hang as a villager, you have lost a strong end game role. I urge you to reconsider. In comparison, Xenu's defense seems to revolve around how he really is a flavour seer (not in dispute) and my use of banana smileys
Lastly, this is turning into a landslide mislynch. Is this how it usually looks when scum is caught? I also want to stress that you have the option of hanging someone else and looking for further evidence that incriminates either me or Xenu. I revealed my night action right away before Serdoa said who he tracked, and I'm willing to do so again the following days. At the very least you should spend the day discussing other subjects for future days rather than sit idle for two whole days, first mislynching me and then hanging Xenu. The town is getting inactive, and the communists are getting away with contributing absolutely nothing.
Okay I looked over D3, focusing on the guys still alive and not cleared by Ryan.
Matt came out looking very towny, going after Bob and defending Rowain.
Q came out a bit towny for his posts, but did end his vote on Gazglum.
Ichabod not much content, but did speak against Bob and vote for Bob.
Catwalk came out looking really scummy. Like, hardcore scummy. Defending Bob like there's no tomorrow. Repeating over and over again that there's absolutely no way that Bob is scum because of D1. Also thinks that Bob and Gaz could be SK's and we shouldn't kill SK's since they've already lost the game if they are SK's. Later on, he says that Rowain is probably third party, but ends up switching to Gaz over Rowain despite not wanting to kill SK's. He also had a plan that Bob roleblocks Gazglum (who we now know was real town vig). TBH Catwalk almost comes off as way too obvious to be scum. I've attached some Catwalk non-role posts to the spoiler tags below.
Sunrise and Xenu were both really quiet that day, came in very late to the discussion, and dropped a vote on Rowain. Both left an opening for switching to Gaz: Xenu said Gaz would be a good lynch, and Sunrise said that if Rowain wasn't getting lynched, he'd switch to one of Gaz/Bob (which he didn't do).
Looking at the votes, it seems that Bob bandwagon ran out of steam pretty early despite ending up second highest. I don't think that scum had to have their votes on Gazglum that day to save Bob, and would in fact prefer having them elsewhere because of the town flip.
I don't know what to conclude from all this. You'd think that Catwalk was way too obvious to be scum, but if he's town, then Xenu is scum and him doing this trade makes no sense. Honestly the only way I can see scum Xenu doing this is that they are both scum, they actually took a look at D3 before we did and noticed that Catwalk is toast, and just decided to bus him to gain villager cred and watch us butcher each other.
(January 23rd, 2014, 14:59)Catwalk Wrote: He should die, but only if we don't have a better scum suspect to pursue. He may target either communist or town, since he doesn't know who's who. And in the event that he does hang as a serial killer, we get no new information that we can use to seek out communists.
And I disagree strongly that he should die just for being suspected of being a serial killer. We have good evidence he's not a communist (lynching Azza), so we either suffer a loss or get nowhere really by hanging him. And given that he's not a communist (if you agree with this conclusion), I consider it a good thing to have him in charge of the scrubbot for now.
(January 23rd, 2014, 16:37)Catwalk Wrote:
Quote:You need to reveal in full. Getting the lynch right trumps your role.
I generally agree, but we have no guarantee that knowing his full role will help us determine his alignment. Furthermore, we have good reason to believe that he's a SK if anything, rather than a communist. Flavour would be nice to know though, and probably not give anything away. Should I reveal my own?
(January 23rd, 2014, 17:31)Catwalk Wrote: While Bob may be suspicious, do you think it's likely that he bussed Azza with absolutely no need? The above quote fits easily with him being a serial killer, but I find it very hard to believe he's scum.
(January 23rd, 2014, 18:03)Catwalk Wrote:
(January 23rd, 2014, 17:35)novice Wrote:
(January 23rd, 2014, 17:31)Catwalk Wrote: While Bob may be suspicious, do you think it's likely that he bussed Azza with absolutely no need? The above quote fits easily with him being a serial killer, but I find it very hard to believe he's scum.
His Azza vote counts in his favor. Everything else doesn't.
As I wrote, I can easily see him being SK. And I can easily fit his actions into an SK pattern, rather than a communist pattern. I think the Azza vote is a big factor in favour of him not being communist, and I don't see what suggests otherwise. If we hang him, I think we get a coin flip between a villager and a serial killer. That's not a very good flip to take IMO. If he's a serial killer he's already lost this game, unless he has some sort of lynch protection to fool us with later.
(January 24th, 2014, 10:36)Catwalk Wrote: The reason I revealed was the large number of killers that had already been revealed. Several players argued that those who were pressured into claiming were far more suspicious, and I think this would have applied to me even more as the last one to join the party. Had I been scanned in 2 or 3 days I think the outcome would be the same, and I'm also highly suspicious of the other killers. I was pursuing Lewwyn earlier partly for that reason, before I knew how many killers there were.
I'm convinced that at least one of Gazglum and Bob is a serial killer, and I think Gazglum is the more likely candidate. He's also a better communist candidate than Bob by virtue of votes. Maybe they're both serial killers, if BRick decided to be exceedingly twisted. Even so, I'd still prefer pursuing communists than serial killers. Rowain is clamming up completely about his comments on Serdoa, and noone other than novice seems to find that suspicious. And I still think novice is scum, so I'm not in the best company with that theory. Other favourite suspects are the lurkers: Azarius, spacetyrantxenu and Mattimeo. We've had a newbie scum faction before which had a terrible first day, we could well be seeing that here as well. If novice is part of that faction, it could help explain what seems (IMO) to be lack of passion in this one.
(January 24th, 2014, 12:26)Catwalk Wrote: I gave a clear reason why I don't think going after serial killer suspects is a good idea at this time. They're out in the open, and they're as much of a threat to the communists as to town. I can't see Bob being a communist, and I think Gazglum is more likely to be a serial killer than a communist. I don't mind pushing Rowain some more, but it feels like banging my head against a wall. I also don't think he's a communist (as I said earlier), I think he's 3rd party somehow. It feels highly likely that there's more than one player that isn't town or communist, unless I'm misreading Rowain completely and he really just did feel like telling us all strenuously that we should trust his instincts.
I suspect you partly on grounds of your Azza vote, and partly because of the theory that we have newbie communists being guided by a disgruntled veteran. Maybe I'm reading too much into that, but it seems to fit quite well. What is your theory on Rowain and Serdoa?
(January 24th, 2014, 15:50)Catwalk Wrote: Bob could roleblock Gazglum and I could inspect Bob. We would then know for sure if he goes anywhere, and make use of my new mediocre bonus ability.
If he doesn't move, we'll know for sure that scrubbing doesn't show up as a night action. And Bob will be discouraged from shooting, since he doesn't know how it works either.
(January 23rd, 2014, 17:14)Catwalk Wrote: Gazglum, you want us to look away from one SK suspect (who voted to save a communist on the block) in favour of another (who voted against said communist)? That doesn't make sense. Bob can offer us the exact same things as you're doing (of little value, as Serdoa pointed out) and he has a voting record that favours him. Why would we lynch him over you?
