Grave Errors: The Bobchillingworth Experience

[Bobchillingworth]

Got Sailing, and:





Um. Okay, I don't think I've ever complained before that a map was too generous in my favor, but wtf Qg? I have like six pearl resources I could have settled. I'll only get like half of those because of the way I settled my cities, but still. By comparison Dave has one, and I don't see any in TBS's land, although I imagine he has a few in the fog.


Well, this is certainly a boon, especially with half-priced lighthouses. Just gotta find time to build them & the WB when I still have a dozen other competing priorities.


Also TBS is super-scary, with the free Great Commander, the Form of the Titan & a golden age. I def. want catapults coming in as my next tech, but he might be so powerful I have to forgo all thoughts of poaching that mana city, unless Dave attacks him first (which, knowing Dave, he never will).

[Bobchillingworth]

[Qgqqqqq]

I count 3 solely accessible from what is definitively your terrain and another 3 in potential conflict situations. I admit it wasn't something I looked into balance-wise, but nor is it something that is paticularly an issue (just going off memory, you don't have a resource at your capital, as opposed to others, and nor do you have many fishing resources immediatlely available) - balance is achieved differently in different areas, but I would say that the sum result is near enough to balance as is reasonable on this sort of a map. Especially as I didn't have the time to make it from scratch, as was the intention.

[Bobchillingworth]

I disagree, Qg. While it isn't a game-breaking imbalance by any stretch of the imagination, the idea that any of the pictured Pearls were supposed to have been contested between me and Tholal is laughable. The terrain and distance would have made attempting to do so tantamount to suicide.

I actually have another Pearls which I didn't picture, on an island which, though technically between mine and Tholal's capitals, is much easier for me to reach. I'll be settling that one fairly soon.



In other news:





Settled this city a couple turns ago. I'll have a new one planted north of it pretty soon as well, along with a city on an island. I am also preparing an invasion force in the south to take out the barbarian cities. Dave is sending me Friendship Trades which is nice, but I suspect we're doomed to Prisoner's Dilemma scenario where both of us need to attack TBS, and neither one wants to make the first move. I have done a decent job with my power, I'm up to second although still far behind TBS. GNP is done however, hopefully having more farms with Construction helps.

[Bobchillingworth]

Looks like the map has some angels who aren't held:





Even with the various malus promotions that unit is still like 7 strength and packing a lot of first strikes, plus the full command line. I hope it has the Animal AI. If I get really gutsy I might someday found a city up there, it's very close by boat.


You can also see a TBS galley- that unit has 6 moves, and I was really worried it might be part of an alpha-strike to raze my coastal cities, but I guess he's just scouting with it. This did persuade me to start construction on a pair of Triremes, to block easy coastal access to my vulnerable core.


Actually, TBS seems to want sustained peace, based on this latest trade offer:





TBH I really don't get this guy. He threatened to invade me to get open borders, and he keeps sending me friendly messages- but why? Could he really be sincere, and he just wants to sit around and build with Charadon? I suppose the Barbarian science penalty isn't really hurting him too badly, and he does have a huge amount of land, what with Tholal gone, but were I him I'd probably just try to storm the Calabim and put the game to rest- the remaining players will surely concede once he has the land of three civs. Perhaps he wants to hit Dave instead, and needs a secure flank- I'll have to check their trades next turn. I do have the second-highest power now by a fair margin, but that doesn't necessarily mean much when he still has over double mine.


TBS did move a lot of troops into his border city, which must be in response to me packing like 6 Moroi in mine. I only did that though because they were previously positioned one tile behind the city, which was about to lose a couple border tiles and become vulnerable to an alpha-strike. Could that minor display of force really been enough to intimidate TBS into offering a peace trade? Hmm.



In total defiance of economic logic, I founded a couple more cities:








I foolishly failed to notice that that Devout was packing Law II and almost lost a unit to a Host. Two more bloodpets arrive in the city by boat next turn, so I'll hold it for a while barring incredibly poor luck, but I'll have to get a small army over there soonish to take her out.


Also apparently I've had River Heaven to my west this whole time. I'll have to prioritize that area for future city sites. It wouldn't have been quite so good pre-Sanitation, but there's a lot of commerce there now.

[Bobchillingworth]

Why can't this unit build a farm?:




Can you not irrigate Shallows or something? You can farm Marshlands...


Also, finally got Trade:






Key points:


* No religions founded yet despite the late date (although I obviously already knew this), but several could be researched at any time. I expect TBS will take Esus soon and Dave will likely research the Veil for Tar Demons. I have no idea why TBS doesn't have the Runes yet, the gold would surely make a meaningful impact given his many cities.

* Superjim has Sorcery but lacks Archery, so he apparently isn't interested in drafting Firebows.

* Superjim has had a strong economic focus- I'll have to double-check, but I think that like me he has both Construction and Sanitation.

* Dave lacks KotE, which is a little surprising.

* TBS doesn't have Festivals (!)

* Nobody has HBR (!!!)


This certainly has been an odd game, the impact of a somewhat barren map + Immortal tech costs + Toroidal maintenance. It's too bad Tholal collapsed quickly, I'd be in a winning position had he held TBS back (not to suggest he realistically could have prevailed- I don't know enough about their conflict to comment).

[Qgqqqqq]

Can you not irrigate Shallows or something? You can farm Marshlands...

My guess: marsh and shallows work the same as tundra does in base, that is, it can have farms built on it if it has irrigation naturally, but it cannot spread irrigation or have irrigation spread to it.

And this isn't a barren map, if you compare it to most mapscripts.

[Bobchillingworth]

And this isn't a barren map, if you compare it to most mapscripts.

Oh, come on Q

Half my cities lack any land-based luxury resources, and the ones which do have a single one. And don't tell me that it's because of poor city placement or whatever, like the only spot on this map where a city can get doubles of any resource is the capital and a potential 2-wheat spot east of it. I like this map, which is why I haven't bitched about it like I do for most, but when we're playing in a world where very few cities have two food resources, multiple luxuries are all but unheard of, and FP are a myth known only in legend, of course I'm going to call it barren. Maybe other Torusland (or whatever this script is) or Ice Age maps are worse, but this is still a commerce and food-poor map compared with most other FFH games. You can't deny that the tech pace for this game has been noticeably slower than other games which used similar settings. It's not like this is a game with inexperienced players- Dave, TBS & I have all won PBEMs before (superjim might have too, I can't recall what games he played in).

[Dantski]

And this isn't a barren map, if you compare it to most mapscripts.

Oh, come on Q

Half my cities lack any land-based luxury resources, and the ones which do have a single one. And don't tell me that it's because of poor city placement or whatever, like the only spot on this map where a city can get doubles of any resource is the capital and a potential 2-wheat spot east of it. I like this map, which is why I haven't bitched about it like I do for most, but when we're playing in a world where very few cities have two food resources, multiple luxuries are all but unheard of, and FP are a myth known only in legend, of course I'm going to call it barren. Maybe other Torusland (or whatever this script is) or Ice Age maps are worse, but this is still a commerce and food-poor map compared with most other FFH games. You can't deny that the tech pace for this game has been noticeably slower than other games which used similar settings. It's not like this is a game with inexperienced players- Dave, TBS & I have all won PBEMs before (superjim might have too, I can't recall what games he played in).

Sounds like an average map to me, I know most RB maps are a hell of a lot more generous than average though.

[Bobchillingworth]

Well yeah, because SP games on standard scripts with standard settings on largish maps run into the hundreds of turns. It's not too bad in this game because we have the fastest turnpace of any game ever run on RB, but there's a reason why most FFH maps skew lush.


Updates from a couple turns-


Got a little lucky and managed to capture this barbarian city for the loss of only a couple bloodpets (one without any promotions)-





Renamed Sile, because this woman



deserves something better than "Sludgehome".


TBS got a scout trapped in Bear Hell:





It died on the following turn.


TBS also apparently fears an attack from me:





I'm going to be building my own Palisade + Walls; hopefully he doesn't interpret that as a sign of weakness.


Finally, got an event after like 80 turns of nothing:




DO YOU WANT -1 HAMMER PER CITY OR -1 TO 2 TILES Y/Y

(Of course 10 turns of being able to work an extra tile for most cities beats the loss of a single Manor hammer. Still not much of an event though).