[SPOILER] The Steak, Beer, and Cigar Saloon

[Catwalk]

Turn 106

As anticipated, MoM is ours:

And Jowy's chariot is defending it for us I have 4 units east of it and 1 axe west of it that I accidentally misclicked out of the city last turn. I'm not sure whether to go for a library or a market next, so I've put it on Wealth for a turn while pondering what to use my overflow for. Market would give me +2 happiness, will come in very handy. I'd also rather work merchant specialists than scientists. It does cost a hefty 150 hammers compared to 90 for a library, though. Suggestions?

This was a big success and potentially a turning point in our game, I feel we have a fighting chance at catching up with the leaders now. MoM is strong on its own, and we have the perfect leader to take advantage of it. My next great scientist arrives in 11 turns, I hope to have Civil Service by then and Monarchy + Monotheism before the GA is over. I will need to make some calculations on how much I earn on a GA, I think it will be worth significantly more than a GS bulb.


To the west, I'm trying to simulate aggression against Nakor:

I have 2 axes and 1 spear, he has those 2 visible spears and 1 immortal sitting in the city. I also have a galley sitting outside his city, completely empty I offered him 80 gold for the city last turn, which he refused. I'm offering 120 gold this turn, which is probably too much for a relatively unimportant city. It is sitting on a PH, has a single clam resource and is able to control 4 forests. If I can convince him that I have 2 units sitting in the galley, 120 really isn't a bad offer for a city he's likely to lose. Think he'll go for it? If he refuses again, I'll declare war but back off. I'll then offer peace for 40 gold.

[MaxPower]

Turn 106
As anticipated, MoM is ours:

I'm not sure whether to go for a library or a market next, so I've put it on Wealth for a turn while pondering what to use my overflow for. Market would give me +2 happiness, will come in very handy. I'd also rather work merchant specialists than scientists. It does cost a hefty 150 hammers compared to 90 for a library, though. Suggestions?

Which is your break even rate? If it's something around 60% or below go for market first. Happiness itself is worth it. Besides this city has a lot of cottage potential. It should build both anyway.

This was a big success and potentially a turning point in our game, I feel we have a fighting chance at catching up with the leaders now. MoM is strong on its own, and we have the perfect leader to take advantage of it. My next great scientist arrives in 11 turns, I hope to have Civil Service by then and Monarchy + Monotheism before the GA is over. I will need to make some calculations on how much I earn on a GA, I think it will be worth significantly more than a GS bulb.

How about running caste system for some turns during the GA? You can spawn a couple scientists/merchants easily. You could use those to either bulb or fuel yourself to lib.

I'm offering 120 gold this turn, which is probably too much for a relatively unimportant city. It is sitting on a PH, has a single clam resource and is able to control 4 forests. If I can convince him that I have 2 units sitting in the galley, 120 really isn't a bad offer for a city he's likely to lose. Think he'll go for it? If he refuses again, I'll declare war but back off. I'll then offer peace for 40 gold.

I'm pretty sure he can see you don't have any units on Deprivation (he has cultural control of a hill over the lake). If (an) immortal(s) shows up next to it, can you whip the spear next turn?
I like the bluff you are making up for the city. Hopefully he falls for it.
By the way, Nakor seems to have a city 1N of the fish. According to the shape of the roads you can see, it's either a city or road on that tile. You could move you stack right next to it, and he may not be able to reinforce it.

[Catwalk]

Caste is actually a great idea, I didn't even consider it. The timing also works out nicely, we'll switch to Organized Religion later and can easily take a handful of turns off from whipping in preparation for that. I'm thinking I want Great Merchants first and foremost, they're worth more beakers than great scientists and they're also more flexible. I think I'll slow build the market for now and whip it when I've switched to Organized Religion and back to Slavery.

Yeah, Deprivation shows up as empty. He can't threaten it this turn... oh wait, he can I completely failed to notice the option to move W of Deprivation. He can do that if he has an immortal on the horse tile or one of the tiles adjacent to it. Crossing my fingers that he doesn't, that would be a painful way to call my bluff. Even so, I'm offering a fair trade for a relatively unimportant city that is quite deep in my territory. I don't think Nakor will feel comfortable declaring on me over that.

[MaxPower]

You could also consider a Great Artist, to bomb Mother in Law, and take Cray city from Jowy. It has two happiness resources plus a lot of food. You may need further military tech to have a high success chance, but stuff like HBR, Feudalism or Machinery won't be that far away after the golden age.

[Catwalk]

I'm inclined to think that's a waste, we'll basically be paying 1500 gold or so for that one city (= payout from a trade mission). I think I'll have plenty room for expansion that I can leisurely outtech Jowy and take him out later, I don't need land that badly. On that note though, I'm not entirely sure how GA bombs work. Do they only give city culture and no immediate tile culture?

[MaxPower]

The rules of cultural control for non-city tiles are (at least how I understand them):

- The civ that has more accumulated culture over a tile owns the tile.
- If a city has N rings of culture and produces X cpt then:
* The N ring (outer ring) tiles receives X cpt
* The N-1 ring tiles receives 20+X cpt
* The N-P ring tiles receives 20xP + X cpt
- Tiles can receive culture from any number of cities. It means you can have more than one city contributing with culture on that tile.

I understand that in case of cultural bomb the city automatically becomes (at least) a fourth ring city, so on that turn it produces 4000 culture on fourth ring, 4020 on third, 4040 on second and 4060 on first.

For example, a non-creative capital city (2cpt):
on turn 1 it produces 2cpt so every first ring tile receives 2cpt.
on turn 6 it gains 2nd ring so every first ring tile receives 22cpt and second ring 2cpt.
At the end of turn 10 it will have accumulated 2x5 + 22x5 = 120 culture on first ring.
At the end of turn 50 it will have accumulated 2x5 + 22x45 = 1000 culture on first ring. At this point if a rival culture bomb occurs four tiles away from any of those tiles, they will gain control of them.

If you throw a culture bomb on Mother in Law, you would gain control of every land N and W of Cray city.

[Edit] The sad thing about culture over tiles is that in-game you can't know the exact amount of culture accumulated so far. You only know the % of each player. As far as I know you can only access to that info through the debug mode (which of course you can't use on a MP game).

[Catwalk]

I'm trying to wrap my head around the explanation given here. It's a little difficult to apply, but the gist of it is that how much tile culture you get from an artist bomb depends on the city's current cultural level and its cultural output.

[Catwalk]

I currently have a standoff with Nakor about the troops down there, not sure if he's waiting for me to move first. I sent him the following message:

"Hey Nakor.

Do you wish to have first or second half of the turn in case war breaks out between us? I have only moved inconsequential units so far this turn. If you wish to move second, would it be possible to get a response to my proposal first? I hope this message doesn't break diplo rules, I'm deeply sorry if it does.

Cheers,
Catwalk"

[spacetyrantxenu]

I currently have a standoff with Nakor about the troops down there, not sure if he's waiting for me to move first. I sent him the following message:

"Hey Nakor.

Do you wish to have first or second half of the turn in case war breaks out between us? I have only moved inconsequential units so far this turn. If you wish to move second, would it be possible to get a response to my proposal first? I hope this message doesn't break diplo rules, I'm deeply sorry if it does.

Cheers,
Catwalk"

AI diplo means no out of game contact. You should not have sent that message. If one of you wants some part of the turn timer you should play your turns so that you can declare either first or second on the turn you choose. If he doesn't cooperate (and he has no requirement to do so), he'll get to double move you the turn before you declare war on him and you'll get the second half of the timer. Setting turn splits during peace time is bad for turn pace and can lead to all kinds of bickering.

Regarding your PM, no, this isn't the rule violation that is making us reload. I was vague there to prevent tech thread spoilers. As for this case, I'll PM Nakor asking him to ignore your message to him and to not reply.

[Catwalk]

Thanks for the clarification. Nakor already responded saying basically to play my turn I was under the impression that messages were often sent concerning turn splits, my bad.