RB Pitboss #1 SPOILER - Hatshepsut / India

[novice]

I am really worried that Exploit (and Imhotep?) will really start abusing their civ to draft out rifles. I mean if Exploit wanted to, he could have 50 rifles at our border within 10-15 turns.

Why wouldn't he want to?

[regoarrarr]

Why wouldn't he want to?

I know, I know....

[regoarrarr]

Okay - made the aforementioned civic swap - gained 24 gold in expenses (err lost 24 gold in expenses?) and lost 51 beakers .

Drafted Harrison, Terrace Park and Whitewater.

Definitely could use a few more workers

[regoarrarr]

Email from Exploit

You are always welcome to chat. Treachery and betrayal are ways to earn an untrustworthy reputation that tends to follow one from one game to many others. The small advantage gained in the one game is not worth the problems in all future games. That is why, I must unfortunately destroy you in this game.

[regoarrarr]

To keep the lurkers up to date, email from dsp

I can have Military Tradition in 5 turns researching at 100%. I will need 190 gold/turn for this. Also, I need 330 gold to upgrade 3 muskets to Rifles. I have 300 gold in the bank. Should I turn research on this turn, or wait until next turn? I should finish my Oxford University in 3 to 4 turns, so it is a bit more efficient to wait.

Kodii, how is the war vs Broker going? I have one Rifleman in your territory to help out, and I can draft another one this turn in ChironBetaPrime if necessary. I'd prefer to do so only if needed, though. Do you think you'll be OK or do you need all the help you can get?

[regoarrarr]

Okay so a bit of thinking about the "Exploit" problem. I have been estimating 50 drafted rifles in about 15 turns, going from T163 aka now. My thinking is 5 more turns for Broker to get Rifling (I'm assuming he is working on it), then 10 turns * 5 rifles drafted per turn. That does not take into account the turn of anarchy to revolt to Nationhood, since maybe he'll kick off a GA (I think he's already used his 1GP GA though)

In talking with Sunrise, he suggested 30 rifles with 10 cannon should be enough to stop that. If there is any extra prod, more rifles and potentially some cavs.

Some facts:
Rifles: 110 hammers
Cavs: 120 hammers
Cannon: 100 hammers

Musket->rifle: 110 gp
Mace->Rifle: 140 gp
Knight->Cav: 110 gp
Cat->Cannon: 170 gp

As of T163, we could not find the Globe Theater in Exploit's city, and his city sizes were as follows:
AA - 10
BB - 11
CC - 10
DD - 8
EE - 9
FF - 11
GG - 13
HH - 8
II - 11
JJ - 11
KK - 5
LL - 7
MM - 13
NN - 8
OO - 3
PP - 8
WW - 1
There are 3 other cities that we could not find. That's at least 14 draftable cities. I guess it's a matter of how hard he wants to draft / slave / ride his cities into the ground.

Currently I have 4 rifles. I believe I have 4 cannons as well. I have several maces and 1 musket that can be upgraded. I also have probably 7 cats at Evendale that could be upgraded.

Okay so let's figure 15 turns. What kind of military production do I have in those 15 turns? Keep in mind that I have to get these units to Evendale by the end of 15 turns, so although I can draft 15 units in Whitewater in those 15 turns, the rifle drafted on the 15th turn won't make it to the front in time.

Whitewater - 12 rifles. I am counting on the ISS Adams and the other galley currently near Sharonville to be able to ferry everything.
Green Twp - figure 11 turns, and it can make 60 hpt doing military, so that's 660 hammers or 6 rifles.
Cincinnati - has 44/110 in a rifle, and makes 16hpt * 12 turns, so 2 more rifles
Norwood - cannon done next turn, and makes 10hpt, so figure 2 cannon total.
Fairfield - makes about 20hpt * 10 turns, figure a cannon and rifle.
Mason - 1 rifle
Arlington - 2 rifles and 1 cannon
Also, I can draft at least Terrace Park and Harrison again

So, those are the "easy" ones, which gives me at the end of the 15 turns,
30 rifles
8 cannons

I could draft a couple of the cities I'd prefer not to (Norwood, Fairfield, Arlington, Mason) and could probably squeeze one unit out of Lockland (after I knock out a few frigates). Plus, I could upgrade. If I figure 2 cat, the musket, and 4 maces, that is 1000 gold total, or about 70 gpt. Also, I could knock out probably 2 cavs in Green Twp that could make it in time or close.

Hmm and actually I was not considering the fact that it will take them 2 more turns to advance into my (3rd ring expanded) borders. So count on 2 more rifles from WW and 1 more cav from Green. Plus let's swap 3 of the rifle builds in Green to Cavs.

So that makes:
35 rifles
6 cavs
10 cannon
5 cats
plus about 4 knights / 6 eles / 2 maces

in Evendale by T178. Sounds like a plan!

[regoarrarr]

Reply back to Exploit

It is interesting your choice of words for my actions as "treachery and betrayal". When I think of treachery and betrayal, I think of someone breaking an agreement, or stabbing someone in the back.

Now you could make the argument that I "exploited" the rules, pardon the pun. While I would say that I played according to the rules as I understood them, I understand that you feel differently about the situation, and I can't argue with that. Being on opposing sides is bound to lead to differences of opinion.

But when I think of treachery and betrayal, I actually think more of the actions of your predecessors in Inca. Yaz and I were negotiating with each other over the land to the east of Pirates Pad. He had agreed I could settle that area, and we were talking about where I should put my cities (he wanted to ensure that they did not take the seafood for the city that turned out to be Wild Wonders as well as the other city near the sheep that I am assuming you are close to founding). In the midst of negotiations, I made an offer, and rather than counter offer, he just snuck 2 settlers in and settled.

THAT is what I consider betrayal, and is what led to my declaring war.

Now you are free to continue to attack me - you can play your game however you want of course. Like I said, this is my first MP Civ game, but I have some experience playing other multi player games. So I'm familiar with a civ deciding to just focus on the destruction of a civ that has wronged it, rather than make an attempt to win the game. But usually those are minor powers that have no chance at winning, rather than a civ in 1st place with a dominant land position.

Which is what led me to offer up ways that we might successfully work together in this game. I am more than happy to suggest agreements that are mutually beneficial to both of us, including gifting of my cities and units where it makes sense. Like I said in my earlier email, the element of surprise of you and I working together is something that NOBODY would expect, which is why it would be so successful.

But if you want to just keep attacking me, I'm more than ready to handle it, though it is not my preference.

Also, I thought that since Caravels upgrade to Frigates, that I could prebuild Frigates by building Caravels pre-Astronomy.

But....Caravels do not obsolete, so this turn, when Astro came in, I found that instead of a 56/90 Frigate in queue, I had a 56/60 caravel

[regoarrarr]

So how about that



Out of the blue. I'll send him an email here in a sec (but won't hold my breath for a reply)

I accepted, though I'm a bit wary of it being some sort of trick in the which he will declare in 10t

[regoarrarr]

Email to imhotep

Hey Imhotep,

So... I noticed that we are at peace now!

I have to say I had to do a double take when I saw the diplo screen come up. Took awhile to think about what I should do, though most of that time was spent trying to figure out if it was some sort of trick or not. Like we have peace, so then I move my units away from our border only for you to re-declare on me 10 turns from now. In the end, I decided that even if that was the case, it was probably worth the chance, so I took it (obviously)

So now what? I was talking to sunrise today and he suggested that maybe you offered peace because you didn't want to take the time to worry about being boated all the time. Don't know if that's it or not.

One thing that I WILL say is that I'm thankful that you take the time to log in every day and play your turn. I know that you have not been pleased with your start and position, and how the game has turned out. And that this game is probably not a whole lot of fun for you. So I appreciate that you are sticking with it.

So how about we make the game a bit more fun. And what could be more fun than a drafted rifle attack on someone. And since you wouldn't want to attack lil ol me! :-), how about someone like say...Exploit?

That at least would be fun, right? He's busy sending all his troops east towards me. Lots of fun over on the west....

Or if you have something else that you think would be fun (besides attacking me), I'm happy to try and help

PS - I am going to keep emailing you till you respond :-D

[regoarrarr]

Email to the group

Just an FYI - the lins just researched Chemistry this turn and have passed it around. Not everyone has it at the time of this writing but I assume that it won't be long. I am in sunrise's camp that would prefer we get Mil Trad sooner than later. Steam Power in 5.

Also my civ stats tea leaf reading says that Broker liberated a city from Kodii and returned it to Munro?

Also Imhotep actually responded!

I’m not really interested in attacking someone at this point. If I was, you would know first ;-) . I offered you peace because you can see my demographics anyway, and you know I’m not really a threat for mighty India. And it also keeps my invested time into this game to a minimum, which is another thing I appreciate at this point.



May the best win that game, but it certainly isn’t Zulu this time.



Imhotep