Ride to ruin and the world's ending! (TBS, Becko & Joao)

[Becko]

I'm assuming this is overplayed, but I'd let Oxy's scout pass. We'll get enough XP off barbs on this map, and we'd need a hotter war for the GG points to matter, which we don't want for a while yet (EXPANSION!). And you never know when a little goodwill might come in handy. OTOH, it might be useful to make him think that we're pissed off about his DoW. [Faux edit: I agree with re-offering peace, especially since he's showing some friendliness by turning back whence he came.]

I like how our tech path gives us outs in case of events beyond our control. Where do you see us going in the longer term? Top or bottom of the tree? And I'm guessing that despite our belligerent cultural heritage, we're in no rush for horse archers for a while yet?

How is the EP distribution looking, BTW? Switched to Commodore? And have he or Oxy put EP into other people yet?

Btw, everyone had renamed their civ and I was feeling a bit left out, we're now the Duchy of Wayne.

Well played. The duchy is currently led by the gnarled hand of the cantankerous but fair khan John, duke of Wayne:



His noble exploits being advised and chronicled by his loyal yet unreliable grand vizier, Li'l Wayne:



Yes, the inclusion of weed is intentional.

[The Black Sword]

That goodwill came in handy earlier than I thought;


We grow again:


Lonely Trail(LT) is growing too. It will pick up a forested hill to complete it's granary in 3t before retaking the wheat. Originally I was thinking of growing to 6 while we had the wheat in preparation for BW and slavery, depends how close we are to another maintenance point though.

I like how our tech path gives us outs in case of events beyond our control. Where do you see us going in the longer term? Top or bottom of the tree? And I'm guessing that despite our belligerent cultural heritage, we're in no rush for horse archers for a while yet?

In the immediate future, I think Sailing, Monarchy, Maths and Currency are the most useful techs. Given the distance between civs, military options like HBR and construction don't seem necessary yet. Where we go after (some of) those techs will be greatly dependent on how the game looks at that stage. Given our lack of marble though, it seems unlikely that the top of the tree will be highly prioritised. Bottom of the tree will depend on whether we have an easy target/ran out of land.

I did switch EP to Commodore immediately upon meeting him, and both him and Oxy are putting their EP on us. It's possible Commodore has already met and got graphs on someone else though.

Nice pics .

[The Black Sword]

We're working an even number of commerce this turn, so I turned the slider down to 50%. With growths in both cities we did hit 2 maintenance so we need to save some gold before BW but I don't think we need a full turns savings to get to mysticism. We're getting 2 pre-reqs on BW by the way, so both Commodore and Oxy know it.



I decided the extra 2 worker turns were more important than converting 6h -> 6f, we can still grow to sz6 in 2 turns anyway without the wheat, working 2 grass cottages. The extra hammer from a forest would just be lost due to expansive rounding anyway, so I worked the river instead, next turn our cottage is done. Expansive did speed this guy up by a turn.



Also, best city in the world!

[Becko]

I'm still here, just listening attentively and taking notes.

We're getting 2 pre-reqs on BW by the way, so both Commodore and Oxy know it.

Yeah, following Civstats I get the same impression. No Slavery yet? Haven't seen any whipping, but I'm only recording EOT scores.

Actually, I can show you what I have people on so far, and maybe you can tell me if the tech paths make sense?

Oxy: Started with Mysticism and Mining. Got Agri T9, Hunting T15, AH T24, BW T37. On Wheel now?
Commodore: Started with Fishing and Mining. Got Agri T9, Hunting T14, BW T27, AH T37. Again, Wheel?
Gaspar: Started with Agri & Wheel. Got Hunting T6, AH T17, Pottery T26, Mining T32. Seems like similar tech path to us, except a few beakers ahead due to starting with Agri instead of Hunting.
Pindicator: Started with Fishing and Mining. Got Agri T9, Hunting T15, AH T25, Wheel T33. Pottery or Mining next? [edit: Yeah, I think I meant BW.]
Dtay: Started with Mining and Wheel. Got Agri T9, Hunting T15, AH T25. Should have BW, like, this turn.
Thoth. Started with Hunting and Agri. Went AH first (T11), then I'm a bit confused. Seems like techs came in on T20, T25 and T30. What fits that, if true?

This is of course assuming that I've got the techs down on the right turns, and you know what they say about assumptions. I could compare these with the F9 screens to get better data, but that's too much work ATM.

[The Black Sword]

The tech paths look right, match up with the rest of our information that everyone has a similar opening. The most interesting thing is probably looking for any competition for Stonehenge for which you probably want both BW and Myst.

Oxy: makes sense, we didn't see any roads connecting to his second city too. It seems like it's leaving the Wheel very late though.

Commodore: He's settled a third city T37 or T38 btw. Given your early date for BW I should check if he was already in Slavery before we met, might explain how he got to 3 cities so fast. Again, would he really do that without teching the Wheel though? He definitely has time to pick up Myst and beat us to Stonehenge but I think 2 early settlers probably means he doesn't have the worker labour.

Gaspar: Looks like a Zara opening.

Pindicator: I'd guess Pottery over BW for his Granaries. Especially since he's Cha too and has extra happy to use the Granary to grow into. I like the idea he's so far away from BW for the SH competition.

Dtay: Sounds right. Also sounds like the biggest SH risk.

Thoth: Very weird. Maybe Wheel -> Fishing -> Pottery? Could be a good tech path if he had a fish resource at his second city and wanted the extra pre-req beakers.



Our warrior is healed up next turn. Our scout is apparently 25 tiles from circumnav. I think we can afford to keep the warrior moving West and speed that up. I should doublecheck that there's enough water for circumnav actually ...



2 cities, 2 granaries, 3 workers.

[The Black Sword]

That last picture was just supposed to be an overview shot:


I think 2 workers will road the plains next turn, the third needs to land on an unroaded forest. Haven't quite decided which one. Either one of the hills to mine or the northern forest to help connect that furs.

Map dimensions are 38*64 I think. That's what a large cylindrical lakes map will give you and matches my fog reading too. That's 2432 and roughly 35% water. Does anyone know the circumnav limit?



This guy has no luck, hopefully that barb will just be a promo.

[The Black Sword]

Copper location is rather underwhelming:



The fish gold city on the tundra will pick it up. Maybe that should be moved up in the priorities a bit. The distance between civs means that copper isn't necessary so early but we'd certainly need some before trying for that wheat spot. Should consider settling on the plains instead of the tundra too, though we lose the lighthouse lake. If we founded a religion in LT that would pick it up too ...

Neither Stonehenge nor a religion has been picked up yet.

We meet the Mythologicals next turn:


and I think C1 is safest for this guy:


Barb warrior possibly incoming and starting the SH chops:



I revolted to Slavery this turn for increased flexibility, didn't seem any advantage in waiting.

[Becko]

Fairly sure circumnavigation kicks in @ water > 1/3, so should be active. Moving up copper city fine; we have fishing by then, no?

Reading tea leaves, still think only Oxy has Myst. If only non-CRE civs interested in SH, we're 1T behind Commodore if he's going Myst next. Pindicator should not have BW yet. Dtay teching something since T38; too long for Myst? Now watch SH BIADL next turn. :P

On phone so bit more terse than usual.

[The Black Sword]

Nice, I'm beginning to feel good about SH, I played on a bit in the sim:





Stonehenge coming in, prepping new city.






Chop+slow build settler for ph/pigs site. I think this is the only site we really have the worker turns to settle, anything else needs a lot more roads.






Next city to the pigs/fish/flood plains which seems too powerful to pass up.

A couple of notes:
-Every city gets a size 1 granary chopped for full effect.
-Originally I wanted to hook up the furs but that's a massive 10 worker turns, and with 2 workers it only gets hooked about the time we want to whip away our pop again anyway. Instead I have 1 worker chipping away at it.
-The silver is also getting hooked. I imagine after this we can grow each city about 3 sizes and pick up a lot of cottages to fix our economy.
-Copper and any military is delayed quite a while.

The best way to settle the copper IMO is to have a sentry up by Oxy so we know if he's going to be bothering us. We probably still need an archer/chariot to help settle the area anyway. Then we settle the tundra spot copper spot and the plains hill pig/fish/sheep spot at roughly the same time. That gives us a forest to chop into the granary and we should have a WB ready for the fish to grow, first ring gold for another happy and the lake. I think this is the way to go, assuming it is militarily viable. Given the distance between civs, I think that is quite likely but we definitely need a sentry to be sure.

The other thing to think about is trade routes. Should we just settle that tundra island to our north, which is pretty bad but at least it shares some of the capitals good tile, or hope for something good in the southern sea. Both of our ports are pretty busy too, both need to get 2 WBs out. The other option to get OBs with Oxy by settling the eastern pigs/fish/horse sit and getting a coastal route.

Regarding the current turn: Bold LewPar have 3 cities as well, can't remember anything else too interesting ...

[Ilios]

What's your reasoning behind Lonely Trail's location? Just the extra hammer and defense bonus of the plains hill plant? (as opposed to the site 1N grabbing the Crabs).