RB Pitboss #1 SPOILER - Hatshepsut / India

[regoarrarr]

Just to keep the lurkers up to date, since Sunrise never updates his thread

email from him to shady and i

I have rearranged tiles and will complete 3 missionaries next turn. Unfortunately, my foreign relations situation has deteriorated rapidly, and I face the likely prospect of 50+ Incan rifles and supporting units in my land on T192, plus possible armies from the Lins or other enemy civs. Therefore I plan to switch civics to Nationalism+Theocracy next turn and will loose my ability to produce missionaries. I hope you won't hold that decision against me. As a consolation to partially backing out of our deal I am prepared to take only the 2-promo rifle in exchange for the 3 missionaries. Or perhaps you would be willing to provide both rifles in exchange for gold or missionaries in the future, provided I survive...

Let me know, and my apologies for the change in plans.

And one to me

As you may I have seen, I'm making 3 missionaries this turn and then switching civics next turn. This will drop my GPT by 68, but then I should gain 16gpt due to civic cost changes. My gpt will then continue to decline as I draft off population. If I keep my cap from loosing any commerce tiles, I have 20 pop to draft. Those burned pop won't cost many GPT, but I will have to run 20% on the culture slider, which will cost about 60gpt. So we're looking at approximately 365-68-60+16 = 253gpt before adjusting for cottage growth and pop growth in non-drafting cities, but also before accounting for unit costs. Basically though it appears I will be able to continue to fund your research through the completion of Railroad.

Some general thoughts:

*I plan to revolt to Nationalism+Theocracy but remain in Serfdom for 5 turns. My workers are currently crash chopping my border tiles for tactical purposes.
*On T181 I hope to be done drafting and will switch to bureaucracy+Slavery for 5 turns. If I can manage excess gold after funding you and paying Lin tribute I will upgrade my non-rifles to rifles.
*On T186 I want to go back to Serfdom to make railroads (see below)
*On T191 back to slavery and slave a machine gun out of every city that can do so (start the machine guns as soon as I get railroad).
*Getting Railroad ASAP would be super ideal.
*As soon as Railroad is in (hopefully by T186) we should have all of our workers in position to do nothing but make railroads. That may make or break this war for us. We definitely want to get all of our units on a railroad and able to respond wherever the enemy army appears.
*I am currently building Globe Theater in my coastal city that lost its second fish. First, how confident are you that the city will get the fish back when it hits 100 culture? If you're not I need to switch Globe cities. Second, is there any chance I could buy your Great Engineer? I don't have anything of value to really offer in return, but being able to get Globe up immediately is obviously 10+ extra rifles.
*I would imagine that if Exploit just walks one 80-unit army up to a city he will try to revolt the city with spies. Sadly, I have no idea how to combat that plan.
*We should definitely ask our allies to cover our flanks. Shady can probably spare some units to cover your Imho border and hopefully DSP can at least help Kodii and tie down Broker's army. I think we will face at least the Lins + Exploit though.
*You may want to make a concerted diplo effort to our allies and enemies prior to the war. After all, Exploit has made some very confident statements that suggests he is a much better threat to win the game than you are, and this battle will likely decide the outcome of the game.

-sunrise

PS - I think there is a 50%+ chance Exploit is bluffing and just wants us to lower our research speed. If so, his plan is working, but I don't see any other course of action.

[regoarrarr]

Reply back to sunrise

A few thoughts / comments / replies / questions

* Do we lose our ability to draft rifles once machine guns are in play (i.e. we research railroad?). Ah nevermind I see you said slave machine gun not draft.
* I should have an extra coal to trade you for railroads, as I believe you don't have any in your lands
* I'm currently pretty tight to get Railroad by T185. I have to drop down to 70 or 80% this turn since nobody has any gold to make up the 60 gold difference. Hopefully that won't affect the overall turn
* Here's how culture works, wrt your Globe city. That tile currently is hit by only Fairfield's 500 culture, so it gets FF's city culture, which is 10cpt. Because it is in your city's 2nd ring, and you only have your 10 culture border pop, it also only gets your city's culture, whatever it is. But once you pop your 3rd ring, the 3rd ring of your city gets city's culture each turn, and the 2nd ring (which is now one ring from the border) gets the city's culture PLUS 20 culture each turn. So you should get it back before too long after you pop the 3rd ring.
* My GE is all the way across my land, on my Imhotep border where it was planning to rush the National Park in a new city. So even if we decide for me to sell it it's probaly 7-10 turns away.
* I will step up the diplo. I think we might be able to make some headway with Broker / Lins.
* I am in a real bad position wrt espionage and Exploit. So yeah I think the chance of him revolting a city is a real chance. Wish we could get Constitution so I could build some of my UBs, not that I have a chance to slip them in anywhere since I'm building military everywhere :-/
* I agree that Exploit may be bluffing. One thing that we may have going for us is that Exploit may think he can see my whole stack since he has City Visibility on all of my cities. I have been putting some of my stack in my border city of Evendale, but I have 15 rifles (and growing) and assorted cannons and other stuff 2E of the city, on a tile that he doesn't have access to see. It's certainly possible (and maybe probable) that he has a spy in the area and can see that stack too, but it's a possibility that he's missing those units.

[regoarrarr]

Email to exploit (I BCCd Sunrise to keep him in the loop)

Hi Exploit,

I had a few minutes this morning, since my kids woke up at like 6:00 and started jumping on their beds (what the crap?!?), so I thought I would drop you a note with comments on your plans, and the thoughts / plans that I had for our mutual cooperation (that I alluded to last night before I had to leave)

Basically it involved a little more of the "good cop" Exploit that we saw 2 days ago and a little less of the "bad cop" Exploit we saw yesterday. Along the lines of

"(9:32:00 PM) Exploit: Hypothetically, a NAP between the three of us, with Sunrise funding both you and I. I could give both Sunrise and yourself all the tech that I research in exchange for all the tech you research. We could still gift the tech we researched ourselves to our respective alliances."

The thoughts that I had involved something like that, but perhaps with other people involved. The reason is that twice in this game, alliances have tried to break away, and been rebuffed. If we try to break away with just the 3 of us, I feel that it's fairly likely the other 8 civs would grab us back.

But what if we had something like you, me, sunrise, shady, dsplaisted and one or two other civs. You could make the argument for Kodii (under pressure from Broker but still could provide some short term help while not really being as much of a long term threat) or Broker (but I bet he'd be hard to get without also getting the Lins). We have most if not all the people that are teching, which will be the best or only way that we can really separate. You take out the Lins, I take out Imhotep, etc. etc.

As for gold funding, if we're in an alliance like this, obviously we will take care and make sure that you, me, dsp (the best techers etc.) are funded to research. The other thought that I had about funding was going off what you had mentioned about religion spread. So in exchange for a NAP, sunrise gives you all the gold from a Judaism shrine, or maybe 2-3 gold for every Hindu city of yours, plus a flat fee. Maybe that flat fee is gradiated, so it starts off as 2gpc (gold per city) + 100 gold, and over time the flat fee reduces to 50, or the per city rises to 2.5 or 3, or whatever. Obviously the exact numbers would have to be ironed out to whatever makes sense, but that's the basic concept.

Of course, Sunrise would have to sign off on this. Unfortunately, he is on vacation and periodically accessing the Internet from wifi in McDonalds or Dennys, as you may have seen from the PB2 email thread. I believe that I am representing him accurately, based on the brief conversations / emails that we have had over the past day or two, but I can't be 100% sure.

Also I think that he would be much more likely to be on board with something like this shrine income payment plan with more of a game long NAP. The belief that he has stated to me is that he feels like if he agrees to something like your original proposal, where he pays you say 200gpt for a NAP through T215, then on T215 he'll be right back in this same position, where you will demand even more for keeping him alive. I think he feels like he might as well make his stand now, if he has to.

I would assume that you would be generally loathe to signing a game long NAP, but I think you and I (and Sunrise) all know that he is not going to win this game. So something like a promise that you won't attack him (or feed troops or ROP to people attacking him), as long as he does the same and pays you (based on whatever schedule we work out) I think makes a lot more sense than it would be for you to give the same deal to say me, or Broker, or dsplaisted.

Anyways, those are my thoughts. My availability today (Wed EST) is that I'll be around off and on during work hours, then going out at about 3pm and not back till later tonight, if you want to reply or chat.

[regoarrarr]

Chat with Broker

Broker: other times were travel, this time for real
Sent at 9:18 AM on Wednesday
me: nice
some interesting things gonig on now!
Sent at 9:39 AM on Wednesday
Broker: really?
me: yup
i assume exploit has been keeping you in the loop?
Broker: pretty much
I really want the turn to roll
me: right - aren't you near kodii's capital?
Broker: Yep this turn.. Ran sims should burn Starting a new club burn a capital club
me: lol
Broker: he should have taken peace
me: guess so
Broker: Actually I have choices..cout destroy his mounted stack, his cannon stack or his capital
me: cool
so exploit has been keeping you in the loop of the deal that he is trying to cut with me?
to try and get me to offer more than whatever you have offered him?
Broker: no details just that he talked to you
me: ah
Broker: And I didnt offer him anything other than he can be my friend
me: i see
that's not how he has been portraying things
but i'm not surprised to hear that from you
Broker: you know how I negotiate.
me: how's that?
Broker: dunno you have negoitated with me. If I dont think its fair to me no deal
me: right
Broker: enlightened self interest.
me: well it's hard for me to know whether i am going to see good cop exploit or bad cop exploit
good cop exploit was offering to switch alliances
bad cop exploit said he was goign to crush me unless i give him 5 cities
(aka the kodii deal - time will tell i guess if i should have taken that like kodii should have)
Broker: Yeah Kodi will still hold urumki I cant take it and defend it yet. Too bad his units are out of place but that cannon stack would just come back and take it again
although I might who knows
havent thought that far ahead
me: yeah things are going well for you for sure
Broker: Just wanted to prove to him it isnt a stalemate
Sent at 10:06 AM on Wednesday
Broker: Exploit will be an issue in the future that is for sure
me: especially if he manages to take me out
the question is what can you and i do to stop that
Broker: Well then it would be dogpile time
me: and is now the best time
Broker: At this point nothing I can do about it. And honestly if you tried to switch up alliances again so soon you position would be even worse
Dsp is in the best postion. No enenmys to worry about and monster teching ability
me: yeah? you think if exploit switched sides now it would make my position worse?
dsp is also about to see the expiration of TGLight, which will cause him to drop in teching ability
not much probablhy - 50-60bpt?
Broker: I doubt exploit will switch with you honestly. Not game talk just friendly talk. Especally after all his bluster about honor and sticking to agreements and trustworthyness
me: interesting
that is not the tune he's singing to me
Broker: Just dosnet make sense to me and really not terribly worried about it
me: he keeps talking to me about how he plays the game like survivor
switching things up etc
but maybe he's just blowing smoke in my ear
(or yours)
Broker: Ever notice in surviivor the people who scheme the most usually dont win
fly under the radar snake it at the end
me: lol
right
which you're doing an admirable job of btw
so i'm on railroads right now as you probably know - care to share what you're tehcing now?
Broker: nothing to see here move along
guess
me: railroads
i mean steam power
Broker: bout to say did I get steam when I wasnt looking
me: heh
Broker: that does make the most sense
me: interested in a swap of steam power for constitution?
Broker: needed another techer and it opens up other techs
unfortunate reality is I had to improve exploits teching to survive.. lesser of two evils
me: how so?
Sent at 10:14 AM on Wednesday
Broker: you guys are a smidge faster than we could handle.. Rep improves him greatly with merc civic
I dont like it long term but will have to deal with it later. He would have gotten it eventually
My tech rate isnt what I would like but cottages are comming along
And with my power rating been doing infra for a few turns
me: cool
so yeah - steam power for constitution?
Broker: has to really chap Kodi's ass that I am building infra and still out producing him on the military front
I finished constitution
me: i konw
you trade it to me for steam power
Broker: instead of direct to steam
me: just tossing around ideas
Broker: Well that would make things difficult since I have highest tech rate someone else would need to do steam which would delay things. But it is an interesting proposal
me: right
helps you
hurts exploit
win win for all of us, right? :-D
Broker: gets you quicker infantry
me: and my UB
Broker: ah the jail
me: that's the mausoleum to you bub
Broker: gonna have to build some of those just dont know when
what is the bonus for the mausoleum?
me: yeah in SP games i never build them
+2 happy
Broker: thats nice
me: did you ntocie you no longer have the biggest city in the world?
Broker: My ep is solid but that is to be expected with my UB
Yeah saw that but I grow next turn
me: still the most cultured but no longer the biggest
Broker: plako drafted it or I would still be biggest
Kodi is in serious trouble when I get rr hooked up.
me: if you have coal
Broker: my biggest problem is it is a long run to the front
Dont know you tell me
me: you don't
Broker: really?
me: yes
Broker: all this land and no coal. That sucks
me: but i could be persuaded to gift you some pretty easily
yeah the coal distribution is very interesting on this map
Broker: well cant use it yet anyway
You need coal to build rr?
me: yes
or oil i think
Broker: my games never last that long
me: coal needed for ironclads as well
Broker: when is oil discovered?
me: discovered with sci meth but you can't build a well till combustion
Broker: heres to hoping I have a city planted on it
me: no you still can't use it tillc ombustion
even if you have a city on it
Broker: drat
that is silly
why show you the stuff when you cant use it
me: yeah
Broker: Does Kodi have coal?
me: i don't remember
i don't THINK so?
Broker: Cause if he dose I will have it soon
me: lol
right
Broker: like I said never have games last this long new teritory for me
me: right me either
i think in SP i never build jails
don't do much modern war because it's tedious
Broker: So did Kodi tell you what he is facing
me: i think so
like 6 or 7 each of cannon, curs and cavs?
Broker: 6 cav,7 curis , 6 has vs 4 rifles 1 city garrison 1, 2 cav one combat 1 shock and a musket
me: nice
Broker: All cav and 4 cuirs will be combat 1 pinch
hie hit me with a cannon did some colateral but all by 2 cuirs have promos available to heal with plus I have a medic in stack to help with end of turn healing
His capital should burn. 3 wonders in ashes oh the humanity
me: but you moved this turn, right?
so they won't heal
Broker: yeah bummer
ah well promos will heal them
me: right
so does your not commenting on my potential tech trade mean that you are not interested?
Broker: No just dont have a comment right now thinking about it
me: ok
Broker: would say not interested if I decided already
me: k just making sure
future tech deals (RR, etc) as well as a coal deal definitely possibilities
can be hard to gauge things over IM / email...
Broker: yeah sarcasim never translates good
that is what I have found anyway
me: yeah
Broker: Ok daughter wants to check her myspace. Got to fill some more boxes
me: ok

I offered a Steam Power for Constitution trade, which gives him and I an advantage, but does hurt our alliances somewhat. Theirs more than ours because SP is a bigger and more important tech, whereas Constitution is not as huge.

Plus, he's their biggest techer, and that means that someone else will have to research Steam.

I doubt he'll do it but thought I'd offer

[regoarrarr]

Chat with Shadyforce

me: okay
been chatting with broekr
i offered steam for constitution. i understand that hurts you and daniel and sunrise and kodii but i think it hurts exploit more since SP is a bigger and more important tech
i doubt broker will do it honestly
but thought i'd mention it
Sent at 10:36 AM on Wednesday
Brian: shouldn't you be discussing this kind of thing with your allies before offering?
Sent at 10:37 AM on Wednesday
me: that's what i'm doing
when i say i offered it to him
i mean that i offered it up in discussion
Brian: oh right,my mistake
I understand
lets see... who is the other dudes' next best researcher?
(Elkad still hasn't turned back on research btw)
me: exploit himself probably
he's now in rep as you probably saw
(and caste and merc)
exploit i believe is doing econ->corp, which means the lins are probably doing steel
Sent at 10:40 AM on Wednesday
Brian: what's the main benefit of const?
just representation?
I forget what else the tech has
also, does broker's terrain support much levees?
me: jail / mausoleum
not sure
i also told him (broker) he has no coal
he asked if kodii had any
(meaning that if so, broker soon would have it)
i couldn't remember
yup looks like none
Brian: I can't where Kodii's coal is
me: me: daniel has 1, right
so it's exploit and i - 3
you - 2
daniel and imho - 1
10:17 AM Brian: Munro 1
Brian: oh yeah, Kodii had none, remember thinking it served him right for having stone + marble

me: (and being ind)
Brian: I undecided whether tha deal benefits us or them more
me: yeah
Brian: *I'm
it's close I suppose
me: what i'd like is to get them and the lins into our alliance
Brian: yeah, but do you really think that is ever going to happen?
me: dunno
Brian: because I don't
me: after taking a verbal beatdown from exploit yesterday i think it's more likely than getting exploit
Brian: I'm not sure, but my gut says that they aren't the jumping-ship sort
me: right
Brian: true that
me: broker is very well acquainted with the dangers that exploit pauses
Sent at 10:47 AM on Wednesday
me: btw i am not in OR but have several monasteries
so if you're interested in the missionary -> rifle deal i might be able to help
Brian: well, I'll be getting 3 off sunrise, I'll see how many more I need, if any
me: ok
Brian: I still have one city whipping a mirrionary every 3 turns
the poor city has ~50 turns of whip unhappiness
me: heh
sounds like whitewater
i got it up to about 100turns of whip unhappiness before i got the globe in there
Brian:
me: and it's managed to draft every turn since i swapped to nationhood
Brian: and all those unhappy faces suddenly vanish
I'm not too close to a globe city unfortunately... too much other things to do
me: i'm assuming you can get sunrise your coal if i give mine to broker as part of some deal that gets him on our side?
Brian: yeah sure
we have a spare coal between the 5 of us don't we?
me: once i hook up the one on the island we do
maybe i need to "broker" some peace for kodii, pardon the pun
brb
Sent at 10:53 AM on Wednesday
me: ok back
Sent at 11:02 AM on Wednesday
Brian: yeah, I don't want to say 'don't try to get broker on our side' but I just can't see it happen...
maybe I'm just being pessimistic
ope I'm wrong
*hope
have you talked much to the Lins?
me: not a whole lot
they were kidn of mailing it in
then when the whole shake up happened dreylin said that he was goign to take that opportunity to be more active
but then he hasn't really
Brian: is it dreylin or kalin running the show there?
me: i think dreylin
kalin is mostly on pb2 i think
(where he's screwing me over there TOO
Brian: hehe
me: i will drop them a note though
Sent at 11:06 AM on Wednesday
Brian: I'm still unsure what the lins plan to do with that large stack of mounted they have in popcorn
me: take out sunrise on t191
Brian: maybe I can intercept that stack if I plant that filler city
Sent at 11:08 AM on Wednesday
me: will you have availability to help me guard my flank if imhotep attacks?
Brian: yes
I have some units there already, though may need upgrade money for max effectiveness
draftees get to imho quicker than the elkad front
and I can move next to 2 different cities on the turn I declare
so I can threaten him in the south very quickly
me: okay
guess we'll see if it's best to threaten his south or help me reinforce the north
Brian: well, it would be much slower sending units up north?
me: like i said he's got about a 7 turn slog before his stack can get to my front city
well i'll be workin on the railroad (all the livelong day)
Brian: I guess I'm assuming that making him split his army is more effective, do you think sending my units to your front is better?
me: no
i don't know at this point
guess it's a matter of whether he cares if you take his southern stack if he puts a dent in me
i've given up trying to figure out imhotep in this game
Brian: we'll see if/when the time comes
me: right
i plan on leaving a skeleton crew on that side
i've also not ruled out the possibility that exploit will send the majority of his stack through imho's lands to attack me there
hopefully by the tiem that happens i'll have RRs to transport my army that way
Brian: surely you can get your army between your 2 sides a few times by the time he marches from imho lands to your east?
any sign of a naval threat?
me: no
i only have one trireme in the area
but he hasn't seen anything
Brian: is drydock faster production or more xp?
I forget
Sent at 11:17 AM on Wednesday
me: both
50% faster and +4 x
it's probably 20 tiles from the far west to the far east of my lands
Sent at 11:20 AM on Wednesday
me: which means 2 promos if you're in theocracy
Brian: barracks not give xp to boats?
me: correct
only land units
Brian: and what about air units?
me: airport
Brian: just airports?
me: i believe so
the number of games i've played where air power has been relevant?
0
Brian: I called one my new cities 'The Airport'
me: yeah is aw that
the ol barb city
Brian: haha, I'm in approximately the same boat
me: i guess somewhat in one of the sgotms
where you started the game with electricity, flight, and a few other techs
we used airships a lot for recon as well as bombardment
Brian: I'm going to assume that most ppl will be unexperienced with multiplayer in modern era, so I guess we'll all be in same boat
me: right

Mostly just idle chitchat but a few good nuggets in there. He can help me vs. Imhotep should that seem necessary. My plan is to leave a skeleton force there and hope for the best, though also watching out for Exploit attacking there through Imhotep's lands.

No response from Imhotep to my email from yetserday which is not really that surprising

[regoarrarr]

Email from Exploit

Hi Regoarrarr,

As far as I am concerned, my only interest in sunrise is to neutralize the funding advantage that he is giving your alliance. I am confident that I can work out a deal with him that basically ensures that your alliance isn't being funded by him more then he funds us. He can remain a neutral switzerland and I will ignore him.

My interest does not lie in a new super alliance. I make limited alliances on a case by case for specific objectives which is my preferred style of play. You are my biggest rival, our nations have a hostile history, you have a slight tech lead and my expansion must either come through Sunrise, you or one of my allies. Turning on my current allies is not in my best interests and therefore not an option at this time. Having said that I do not believe war is necessarily inevitable.


Here are the items for peace discussions from my perspective.

Evendale (non-negotiable). Return of this DR city is a matter of principle and pride. I can take this city by force before you get a single machine gun in place. The casualties will be enormous on both sides however I can afford the casualties and will rapidly replace my losses via drafts while you cannot. After this battle you will no longer have an offensive military capability to speak of, even your machine gun advantage is purely defensive by nature. Meaning your future growth will be severely curtailed for the foreseeable future. Given that I have investigative powers on this city which gives me valuable information on your national research rates and such, it isn't even in your best interest to keep this city.

Sharonville (non-negotiable). Settling this city so close to Wild Wonders was a deliberate attempt at a culture flip (which has failed) and was futilely provocative. I will not be drawn into a long futile culture battle when I can easily take this city as well.

North Bend (non-negotiable). This is another city which I can easily conquer. It has strategic importance because it allows your fleet into the northern sea which only furthers the hostility between us however it will never be a significant city to your nation for any other reason. You took 3 cities from me as part of this war when you had the advantage and now that I have the advantage I see no reason to have peace unless I at least reclaim the same number of cities.

Lockland (negotiable). Similar to North Bend this city has strategic value from a fleet movement perspective and it is a city that I will conquer if we go to war. It makes a good chokepoint city for our border but it can serve that function in either of our hands. I can see how it would be more valuable as a defensive position to you guarding your inner sea cities so I am willing to negotiate on this.

Settlement of the lands to your north (negotiable). I am willing to offer a concession to not settle these northern lands or I am willing to accept settlement rights to these northern lands as part of our agreement.

Steam Power (negotiable). Getting this earlier has some value to me but our techers are rapidly finishing this research so with each passing turn it becomes less valuable.

The following items all have value to me and I would consider them as possible incentives for peace:
Railroad, Great Engineer, gold, spread of Taoism

Additional incentives that I might be willing to offer include longer NAP term (maximum 50 turns), spread of Hinduism, future technology, settlers, workers. You may have other suggestions that I have not thought of that may be acceptable.

The net of my position is that I have the military advantage for the immediate future and I would be remiss as a leader if I did not press that advantage for full effect either on the battlefield or at the negotiating table. You have already shown that you will similarly exploit any military advantage that you have.

Regards,
Exploit

How am I doin at keeping you guys entertained

[regoarrarr]

Email sent off to the lins and broker

Hey Lins, (after writing most of this email I figured I might as well copy in Broker since it's basically the same stuff I was talking with him about this morning)

Long time no email! Seems like things are starting to heat up in this game again! I was joking to Broker this morning that it seems like he always is out of town / moving whenever things start getting really crazy :-D

So I don't know how much Exploit has been keeping you in the loop with the discussions that he has been having with me. What I am understanding from him is that his allies (I assume you, Broker, Munro, Elkad, etc.) have been urging him to take me out. I asked him if he thought that he could survive the dogpile that would undoubtedly arise from him swallowing my lands, and he said that he had made the appropriate concessions with his allies, which I again took to mean you and Broker and such. Now I don't know if he is just trying to mess with me or maybe he means other allies he has or what. For all I know he is just trying to run a big bluff to force me to focus on military and slow down my research.

That was the "bad cop" Exploit. The "good cop" was that he wanted to switch sides, have me give him Steam Power and have Sunrise fund both of our research. Again I am assuming that he has told you all this and I am not telling you anything new.

Only you know for sure what he's doing, or what you might be planning. I think everyone is in agreement that Exploit is the front runner in this game and while he's not guaranteed (or even more likely than not) to win, he is in 1st place for a reason.

While Broker and I were chatting this morning, I tossed out the idea of my swapping Steam Power for Constitution. That helps him and I, at the expense of slowing down Exploit. I am willing to extend this to you as well. I also could probably figure out a way to supply you with coal as I believe you also (along with Broker) do not have any natural coal.

I guess where I'm going is that Exploit is going to turn on you at some point. I don't know if pasting chat transcripts from other people is generally considered acceptable or not (I know in some circles it is not), so I will hold off on that, but he has made it clear to me that he is not interested in grand alliances, and plays the game "like Survivor" - deciding who to take to the next era and slowly eliminating them when they have ended their usefulness. From the PBEM game you know the advantages that being on defense can bring you, especially at tech parity. How is anybody going to stop a 40-city civ that has railroads, fighters and control of the seas? If we're going to strike, the time is NOW, while we can still stop him!

He tells me that he has overwhelming military capacity and will destroy me. He has lots of EPs on me so maybe it's true. If he does flood my borders with tons and tons of drafted rifles (5 per turn) that I can't stop, I won't be stopping him. Without a better plan, it seems like it would be in my best interests to just let him have his way with me until he becomes so big that the rest of you guys realize that you have to do something about him. Sure it will cripple my chances of winning but let's face it - if he really can and does destroy my army, my goose is cooked anyways.

As for spoils, I am sure that would be one of the major arguments that you would hear - that taking out Exploit just replaces one uber-power (him) with another (me). I would be willing to do what I can to prevent that from happening. I make no claims on any of Exploit's lands. The areas north of you can go to you and/or Sunrise, and the areas to Exploit's west can go to Munro or Imhotep.

I know we had some hard feelings etc. on the breakup of our original alliance. I recognize that much of that was my doing / fault, and I apologize. There are many excuses that could be used as to why I did what I did, but in the end they're probably just rationalizing / using selective memory and in the end it probably doesn't matter the whys as much as the fact that it did happen. I am trying to make it right (though of course a deal like this is in my interest as well as I believe yours). I just know that if Exploit is not stopped here and now, his chances of winning go from 20% to say 75%.

I have shared these thoughts with my current allies and I believe they are receptive to it. I have not mentioned anything to Kodii yet because a) I'm not sure if he is going to be with us much longer (he has mentioned trying to find a replacement) and b) I'm not sure if his CIV will be with us much longer (against Broker's stacks). If you guys are receptive in general we can figure out what we need to do with that situation specifically. Same goes for Elkad if you don't want to leave him behind - we can figure something out

Anyway those are my thoughts. I realize that with the Christmas season upon us (and Broker moving!) that it might be tough to iron things out quickly, but of course, time is of the essence. My AP-enforced peace treaty with Exploit ends in a few turns and he has been making threats that he will move quickly after that.

Hope to hear from you soon

[Kyan]

Rather well. Thank you very much for the regular updates

[regoarrarr]

Email from Exploit to the Lins and Sunrise, copying in me, titled "The Sunrise Accord"

Based upon my understanding of requirements from various conversations, I would like to offer the following proposal for Sunrise's and Lin's consideration. I have included Regoarrarr in this discussion as it affects our current negotiations.

The Sunrise Accord

The nation of Destroy Rego and the League of Lin as part of this accord do hereby formally recognize the nation of Spain as being a neutral party until the end of the game. Neither Destroy Rego or the League of Lin shall attack Spain or allow third parties to move through their territory to attack Spain for the remainder of the game so long as the terms of this accord are kept by all parties. Spain likewise agrees to not attack or allow third parties to move through their territory to attack Destroy Rego or League of Lin for the remainder of the game.

Beginning on Turn 191 and continuing until the end of the game, the nation of Spain shall gift 50% of its gold per turn earnings to Destroy Rego, with a minimum amount of 200 gold per turn being gifted. Destroy Rego shall in turn gift 100 gold per turn to the League of Lin, this is in lieu of the 50 gold per turn currently being paid by Spain to the League of Lin. As part of this agreement Destroy Rego also agrees to spread Hinduism to all of its cities to assist in increasing Spain's income.


Sunrise and Lin, please confirm if you agree to these terms.

Regards,
Exploit

[MWIN]

, where did this came from?