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[Spoilers] Old Human Tourist: Empress of Azteca

Turn 75




- Barb spear has chosen a non-threatening path in the extreme south nod Barb warrior is more bold and should die during the interturn.
- One further worker to play with jive
- Our latest addition "Hazelnut" starts miserably slow. In an attempt to mitigate this it will get granary chopped in immediately.. With border pop and improved sheep, crabs, plains cows and horses it will one day be a fine city.




- Gertie whips granary next turn. 8 granaries at EOT77 sounds actually like quite a decent start. nod
- Daisy finishes an axe this turn and will finish another one next turn thanks to chop. We will finish Sailing at EOT and if we see that Azza unexpectedly has horses connected it can be a spear as well.

(June 17th, 2014, 16:45)Old Harry Wrote: Also nono bad micro. Mustn't create bonus food from nowhere shakehead.

- I know!! cry You can see above that Butterscotch is taking the hit and working 1/0/3 coast tile. (Daisy is actually working a 2/1 forest as well, but that's all fine because that's in essence a 2/2 tile as that hammer will overflow into a settler build and be the one that generates another extra hammer..) crazyeye Don't worry next turn we have again plenty of tiles to play around with tongue




Azza's power is at a similar level with us, but I do believe that significantly higher share of it is actual units. I'm happy to add those couple of axes though and plan to stay about at par with him. This is what I don't want that happens: Azza builds an army thinking about Mardoc, but then notices that his eastern neighbor is running a farmers gambit and goes for him instead..




We are several food points behind the leader in food and I don't actually expect us to hold a top position during the next 20 turns. Our cities #5-#8 were all fairly slow starters and can't match the early speed of our first four quality cities. I hope that our mass granaries help us compared to some of our opponents, but realistically I don't see us getting the top spot before we manage to increase our happy cap and master balancing our horizontal expansion with economic improvements and hit 15 cities or something.

Our economy has taken significant steps forward, but as already said I try spend all our commerce with maintenance costs lol




In the end it's really neighbors that count: Good news is that we have 4.9 % of world pop (equivalent of what 1.6 civs should have) and our best opponent, Cheater Hater, "only" has 3.XX %. Exactly 3 % is pretty much what an average civ should have.

(June 17th, 2014, 16:45)Old Harry Wrote: So Azza and Cynheard don't have Sailing? Maybe the marble island is available after all... (Oh okay, I'm just kidding.) I do think that means Azza has made some progress down the religious line though - would make sense with Masonry to be heading towards Monotheism.

Yeah, that's my interpretation as well (that Azza and Cyneheard don't have Sailing). Now there is the same icon next to Whosit's name as well. (A significantly more pleasant potential neighbor than pindicator or dtay)

It's possible that Azza went along the religious line, but he could simply be just behind. His GNP has not been too good and we believe that he lost his scout early. Despite not having a too amazing hut luck, in the end quantity can match with quality and we got 200 gold and 100 beakers towards Writing, which is a major boost compared to someone who possibly did not get anything.

Btw OH, Midsummer is kind of big in Finland and I will be away from home for the rest of the week. I expect to be able to play our turns in time (should have connection), but if you have time you can pay some attention to turn timer (I leave a notice in the tech thread so that they poke you as well). I have improved our micro plan a bit further from the last edition and will post relevant saves later today. nod
Finished:
PBEM 45G, PB 13, PB 18, PB 38 & PB 49

Top 3 favorite turns: 
#1, #2, #3
Reply

Azza got a tech on t46 that I had down as Sailing, Masonry, Meditation or Polytheism. If it's not one of the first two then I'll guess it was Poly to let him get Monotheism. Of course it could have been pop growth of 4 in one turn or some land points (but his borders wouldn't have popped on t26 would they?)

I'll keep an eye on the timer. I look forward to seeing if your microplan tweaks get us that extra work boat!

Also will the stone city build a galley before or after the work boat and granary?
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(June 18th, 2014, 10:10)Old Harry Wrote: Azza got a tech on t46 that I had down as Sailing, Masonry, Meditation or Polytheism. If it's not one of the first two then I'll guess it was Poly to let him get Monotheism. Of course it could have been pop growth of 4 in one turn or some land points (but his borders wouldn't have popped on t26 would they?)

Yeah, Azza definitely does not have Sailing yet, so based on your score analysis he very likely has Meditation or Polytheism.. Judaism has been claimed already a while ago, but sure, it could be Monotheism and OR that he is interested in (and not only quarries, Mids etc.).

Quote:I'll keep an eye on the timer. I look forward to seeing if your microplan tweaks get us that extra work boat!

Yeah, that works beautifully, 2x fish and 1x whales hooked on T83, two of WBs are finished EOT81.. nod

Quote:Also will the stone city build a galley before or after the work boat and granary?

Currently I'm thinking/planning after. That's something that can still easily be changed though. I think we want to send a scout to stone city when we are close to finishing a galley, there might be (must be!) a hut on that island... crazyeye
Finished:
PBEM 45G, PB 13, PB 18, PB 38 & PB 49

Top 3 favorite turns: 
#1, #2, #3
Reply

(June 18th, 2014, 10:30)Fintourist Wrote:
(June 18th, 2014, 10:10)Old Harry Wrote: Azza got a tech on t46 that I had down as Sailing, Masonry, Meditation or Polytheism. If it's not one of the first two then I'll guess it was Poly to let him get Monotheism. Of course it could have been pop growth of 4 in one turn or some land points (but his borders wouldn't have popped on t26 would they?)

Yeah, Azza definitely does not have Sailing yet, so based on your score analysis he very likely has Meditation or Polytheism.. Judaism has been claimed already a while ago, but sure, it could be Monotheism and OR that he is interested in (and not only quarries, Mids etc.).

Well I believe that in PB17 (probably not a spoiler)
he built the fastest pyramids ever...
Organised Religion might be handy for a wonder build. Please please let him build the pyramids here.

(June 18th, 2014, 10:30)Fintourist Wrote: Currently I'm thinking/planning after. That's something that can still easily be changed though. I think we want to send a scout to stone city when we are close to finishing a galley, there might be (must be!) a hut on that island... crazyeye

I know it gimps the city, but I'd be tempted to chop work boat then galley then whip the granary. The extra 10 gpt is going to be more valuable than giving that fairly crappy city a fast start...
Reply

(June 18th, 2014, 11:41)Old Harry Wrote: Please please let him build the pyramids here.

please

(June 18th, 2014, 10:10)Old Harry Wrote:
(June 18th, 2014, 10:30)Fintourist Wrote: Currently I'm thinking/planning after. That's something that can still easily be changed though. I think we want to send a scout to stone city when we are close to finishing a galley, there might be (must be!) a hut on that island... crazyeye

I know it gimps the city, but I'd be tempted to chop work boat then galley then whip the granary. The extra 10 gpt is going to be more valuable than giving that fairly crappy city a fast start...

Current plan is to chop first the WB with 2 workers (tested, it pays off to sacrifice that worker turn) and then the city gets 2 further chops almost simultaneously. One of them goes into granary, one of them into galley. I was thinking that we first 1-pop whip the granary and then 1-pop whip the galley, but it can be easily done other way around. The cost is maybe ~3/4 turns in growth speed so if we have a settler ready at that point it might well make sense to go for it. I haven't microed quite that far yet though.

You are going to like our new micro plan, many things come nicely together. I need to start creating the save stack all over again though, because I came up with some improvements that I want to incorporate into it. So depending on how intense I'm watching football it might still take a while..
Finished:
PBEM 45G, PB 13, PB 18, PB 38 & PB 49

Top 3 favorite turns: 
#1, #2, #3
Reply

Ok, here is the sandbox+micro plan for turns 75-90.

This is probably the most entertaining phase of the game to micro. It's late enough that it becomes extremely complex, but it's still early enough that it has a big impact nod

I think I'm satisfied with the plan here. The next 10 turns are played with care (until T85/86) and rest is just illustrative. (Basically the point is that we complete Currency EOT89 and we found our 11th - 13th cities on early 90s). Assuming peace I think our goal is to have 15 cities (of which two on islands) by turn 100 without having crashed our economy completely.

Here are few comments if you have energy to go through the save stack:
- It has it all, build swaps, tile swaps, avoid growth optimization (not because of granaries this time), cancelled worker actions...
- Our sandbox is currently 6 beakers behind the actual game (partly caused by known-tech bonus from Cheater Hater) and our sandbox has 3 more hammers in library in Butterscotch (in case you wonder why do I micro the city to 43/90 hammers before double-whipping the thing). Otherwise it should be accurate now.. (fingers crossed)
- Military unit movements are extremely illustrative, as usual I don't bother guessing where barbs appear and they are just fortified in random positions
- I can't wait to have SAs everywhere. Our land is fertile and from the last saves you can already see how our cities get up to speed and are begging to be whipped every 5 turns. Yeah, it's RBmod, but 50 hammers for 2 pops will be a fine trade for many of our fertile cities..
Finished:
PBEM 45G, PB 13, PB 18, PB 38 & PB 49

Top 3 favorite turns: 
#1, #2, #3
Reply

popcorn - with the pace of PB13 I had time to go through this tonight! It's astonishingly well polished thumbsup. I tried to criticise, but all I've got is two things I'd do different. Spoilered for being boring micro nitpicking that no-one else will find useful:

T78 - the cottage for hazelnut seems odd - Alfie is crying out for more cottages to work... I guess this is because of the road?
T80 - A road on G's hill lets us chop and mine the next hill easier... that cottage isn't going to be useful for ages.
T81 - Love those work boats!
T85 - you're working a cottage at Butterscotch over an Alfie cottage - given that the library has just completed this could be deliberate, but the more cottage turns we can put in the cap the better.
T88 - Depending on our future tech/war plans the Library in Flossie could perhaps be some units part-built for later? Cornelius could switch to a spear so the axe will be stored and save on unit costs...
T90 onwards - after currency do we go for:
- 2-turn masonry (stone for Moai, pyramid fail-gold and perhaps attempt the great lighthouse),
- 10-turn Calendar for +2 happy short term (+3 once we grab the silk),
- 10-turn CoL for expansion and whipping,
- 7-turn HBR and/or
- 10-turn Construction (needs masonry) for attack?

Our options for Azza are to attack with Horse Archers, Cats and Axes just after t100 or wait until Guilds. If he gets construction we should wait for Knights, but as of T75 he hasn't got Maths yet - we'll have to see what he goes for after Masonry, if it isn't Maths then I want construction->HBR and hammer... If it is Maths then I'd estimate Construction will take him ~15 turns so if our attack is swift enough hammer, if I'm underestimating him then Sacrificial Altars will help us get to Guilds quick and whip out Knights and Cats instead.

Finally we aren't working any specialists in this setup, it's 17 turns for a GS and by t93 an academy is only worth about 5-10 beakers per turn (breakeven). By t110 the cap should be on better developed cottages, but until we get Calendar or Monarchy its probably still not worth it.
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Turn 76

On the run here! Turn 77 will be the most difficult so if you have time OH it's all yours...











(June 18th, 2014, 18:35)Old Harry Wrote: popcorn - with the pace of PB13 I had time to go through this tonight! It's astonishingly well polished thumbsup. I tried to criticise, but all I've got is two things I'd do different. Spoilered for being boring micro nitpicking that no-one else will find useful:

Excellent! thumbsup

Quote:T78 - the cottage for hazelnut seems odd - Alfie is crying out for more cottages to work... I guess this is because of the road?

Yeah, it's the most useful thing to pre-build when we're shuffling the workers. Having one improved food-neutral tile isn't terrible for H either for the growth phase.

Quote:T80 - A road on G's hill lets us chop and mine the next hill easier... that cottage isn't going to be useful for ages.

Agreed!

Quote:T85 - you're working a cottage at Butterscotch over an Alfie cottage - given that the library has just completed this could be deliberate, but the more cottage turns we can put in the cap the better.

I think the reasoning was using capital's library bonus, but yeah, we can prioritize cottage growth.

Quote:T88 - Depending on our future tech/war plans the Library in Flossie could perhaps be some units part-built for later? Cornelius could switch to a spear so the axe will be stored and save on unit costs...

We would need a crystal ball to decide here, but yes, those hammers can well be units!

Quote:T90 onwards - after currency do we go for:
- 2-turn masonry (stone for Moai, pyramid fail-gold and perhaps attempt the great lighthouse),
- 10-turn Calendar for +2 happy short term (+3 once we grab the silk),
- 10-turn CoL for expansion and whipping,
- 7-turn HBR and/or
- 10-turn Construction (needs masonry) for attack?

I'm really yearning for either Calendar or CoL, but need to see later if military techs are a must or more useful..

Gotta run, will comment on Azza plans and specialists later/when I'm back! crazyeye
Finished:
PBEM 45G, PB 13, PB 18, PB 38 & PB 49

Top 3 favorite turns: 
#1, #2, #3
Reply

Excelent, It seems I was right (about the map) neenerneener

I'd like to read more about these plans to attack Azza.


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OH: One comment about the current turn. I think our WB should move one tile East and then immediately back. I think that way it barely manages to come back and hook our fishes on T83 (feel free to double-check my math).

I checked the T77 sandbox and it should be pretty straightforward, just remember to cancel worker actions after cottaging near Cornelius so that it does not accidentally finish on t78.
Finished:
PBEM 45G, PB 13, PB 18, PB 38 & PB 49

Top 3 favorite turns: 
#1, #2, #3
Reply



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