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What is Kodii? Monaco?
Current games (All): RtR: PB80 Civ 6: PBEM23
Ended games (Selection): BTS games: PB1, PB3, PBEM2, PBEM4, PBEM5B, PBEM50. RB mod games: PB5, PB15, PB27, PB37, PB42, PB46, PB71. FFH games: PBEMVII, PBEMXII. Civ 6: PBEM22 Games ded lurked: PB18
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Krill Wrote:What is Kodii? Monaco?
Shoot - forgot him. I"m going to go with Belize (OP edited)
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Brief note from Exploit
Quote:Exploit: np. Broker cleared it for me. Congrats on getting my allies to turn on me. Good show.
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Email sent out to the group to sort of reply to the post most of you have probably already seen in the public player thread
Quote:Hi guys (Shadyforce, dsplaisted, sunrise, league of lin, Broker, Kodii), (didn't send to Elkad, Munro or Imhotep because I'm still not entirely clear where they are in this)
By now, you may have seen Exploit's post in the public player thread. If you haven't seen it yet, basically he blusters that our new alliance will just give me the game, blah, blah blah. He says that if we continue against him he will vassalize to me or give me all his cities / troops.I don't mind his trying something like this, since he probably realizes how much trouble he is in.
As for his threats, of course I am willing to do whatever the group wants, other than seceding from this alliance to fight Exploit mano a mano. I have no intention of taking him as a vassal, though actually, if he offers to give me all his cities, maybe that would actually work okay, since I could then re-gift them out to you guys in some sort of appropriate border agreement.
Anyway those are my thoughts - I plan to ignore his post unless everyone wants to say something specific but if you have thoughts / concerns about some of the points that he brought up, feel free to email me and/or the group and we'll get them taken care of
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Email from shady
Quote:I've been fairly quiet lately - I guess I haven't fully gotten back into the game since xmas. I've been following the assembly of this alliance quietly without saying very much. I'm concerned by the way this alliance is coming together in particular the role played by Elkad and Munro, Broker's demands, who gains what from Exploit's demise, etc. Loads of different things. I'm not looking for reassurances or promises or anything. I'm saying that I don't think this is going to work out and I think we should change direction.
I have an alternative: We use the massive pressure on Exploit as well as the fact that his allies have abandoned him to get him onto our side (that is me, you, Sunrise, Daniel and Dler) and we layeth the smack down on Broker/Lins/Munro/Elkad/Imhotep in a swift and brutal manner. I think that that sextet will have a significant military AND technological advantage and that a massive multi-front invasion will be possible just after T190 in which both you and I stand to gain plenty of territory.
I think that on the T195 mark, the sextet can have researched Railroad, Biology, Physics, Corp and Assembly Line, can have assembled larger better armies than our neighbours and me, you, Exploit and Daniel can jointly invade Imhotep, Munro and Lins (and maybe Elkad too) all around the same time and I think we're pretty certain to win with that alignment.
Not sure how I feel about that. Well, I know how I feel about it, and that's bad, but I'm not sure what to best do about it
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Brief chat with shady
Quote: me: hey
haven't seen you around in awhile
shadyforce: hi, I'm typing an email to you, almost done
me: nice
hopefully good?
shadyforce: interesting
me: uh oh 
shadyforce: :P
ok, I'll just send what I have and you can ask questions and give me thoughts
Sent at 1:20 PM on Wednesday
me: ok
the reason i've been wanting to get a hold of you is just to talk about broker's / munro's switcheroo
and then the whole "exploit's friend takes over kodii" fiasco
but lemme go read what you sent
Sent at 1:23 PM on Wednesday
shadyforce: if I dropped out and exploit's friend took over the shady expanse then I'd understand your concern but even if he wanted to throw his lot in with exploit, there's not a lot he can do as the byzantine civ in it's current predicament, so I'm not too worried tbh
me: right
Sent at 1:26 PM on Wednesday
me: so in either form of the alliance
you send troops against imhotep?
shadyforce: what do you mean by in either form,what's the other form?
me: everyone vs. exploit
or in that one are you going agaisnt exploit himself?
shadyforce: I wasn't sure what was required of me
but yeah, I'd like to send them against imho
oif exploit is incolved, I'll need to decide how to balance troops vs Lins/Elkad against troops vs imho
me: right
shadyforce: but at the very least,I have my greedy eyes on thorogrim (or whatever it's called) and the other filler nearby
so yes, we will be forking him
wait, not forking,what's the other word?
pincering?
me: perhaps
shadyforce: flanking?
whatever
me: meaning attacking from severeal directions?
shadyforce: yeah
Sent at 1:34 PM on Wednesday
me: so here's a few thoughts that have popped in
kind of playing devil's advocate
1) i know you have kind of been quiet about it but i kind of feel like i've at least committed to the 15t cool down period with broker at least
2) this doesn't really solve teh problem of stopping exploit at the only real time he is likely to be vulnerable
3) i think we may have real trouble getting sunrise on board
judging by the email he sent out about this alliance fracturing and his past history with the incas (he views them and their early worker steal as the main reason he's a 2nd rate civ)
also 4) big fear would be exploit using this to wring out concessions from broker and continue to work me
i'm unlikely to agree to work with him unless he gives up his demands on my western cities
and he's unlikely to like that (though he may agree for now)
and so i feel like i'm setting myself up for him switching sides and attacking me at some point down the road
dunno just my initial thoughts
Sent at 1:38 PM on Wednesday
shadyforce: 1) no problem, we can give notice right away - attack won't happen for 15 turns since that's when various naps wear off anyway
2) Yes, good point, we must work out whether it's worth this risk
3) can't say much there,I don't know sunrise's feelings on this - if we decide it;s worth itI'll leave it to you to try and convince sunrise
4) leave exploit to me, I'll see what his demands are and I'll get a feel for whether we can trust him to not flimsily switch sides again
to elaborate on 2: yes he will certainly go into the next phase in the game in the lead, you';ll be 2nd and me and daniel will probably be hovering about there somewhere too
the alternative is exploit dead and you going into the next phase in the lead
you have no idea what kind of pressure there will be on me to turn on you if that happens... you know how these "gang up on the leader" games work
I still think that even if we can't kill him, we can outrace him if we want to
yes he';s big and powerful but 3 civs can always research faster than a even a civ the combined size of the smaller ones
and he won't be anywhere close to three times any of our sizes
I understand you're precarious border situation, but it will make you virtually uninvadable by anyone else since to do so would hand exploit the game
Sent at 1:44 PM on Wednesday
me: yeah
hold on i just stepped out
and had some thoughts
gimme a min
shadyforce: ok
I've got to go do a few things, must wade through snow to get to the shop, hehe
give it some thought and send me an email or poke me later
I think we're starting to get to the crux of things - the idea that if Exploit goes down that makes me the new "big dog". Natural to be worried about that and so now I gotta figure out how to ease concerns on this and see if this alternate Exploit-inclusive alliance is really the best way.
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Diplomacy: How wars are won before the shooting starts, right?
Would the ideal solution be some way to slow down Exploit just enough to keep him occupied, but not enough that you become the new universal target? And, if so, how? Ha ha. I wouldn't know.
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No I think that the ideal solution would be to cripple Exploit, but in such a way that there are other powers that are in the top-tier (Broker, dsplaisted being the main 2 that seem like logical candidates).
But doing so in such a way that I really AM the biggest, but just nobody can tell that I'm TOO big.
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Here was the email that I sent off to shadyforce
Quote:Okay - a few thoughts. I'll start with the ones I had originally. Even before I got back and saw that you had mentioned it, I was wondering if part of the rationale for exploring other alliance possibilities would have to do with the fact that if there is no Exploit, then all of a sudden I'm the BMOC (big man on campus). Which could lead to certain situations that I think that we both would prefer to avoid. While of course I'm fine with generally getting more land and such, I am also sensitive to the fact that being the biggest has some unintended consequences.
I'm just not sure teaming up with Exploit is the best way to handle those concerns. Like I said in chat, I think we will have a REALLY hard time getting sunrise on board with this, for several reasons. So if we assume that the Lins, Broker, Elkad and sunrise stick together, and Imhotep is a non-factor, then it still leaves us with 6v5, and one of our 6 (DLer) is pretty crippled. Plus now the big research funder is on the other side :-/
I dunno. Just seems like a better idea to cripple Exploit, and THEN start the in-fighting. Ideally we could do it in such a way that nobody (myself included) is way far out in the front, the way that Exploit currently is. That was why I proposed that I get no gains from Exploit's lands, that they go elsewhere. Even from Imhotep, I don't think I'd want more than a city or two - the rest can go to you or Daniel or whoever.
In any case, I'll probably be offline most of the rest of the evening but back again tomorrow
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Email to shadyforce
Quote:Thought I would drop you a note to share some thoughts / concerns. I figure you've been fairly busy lately, with the holidays (and I see your status often as "studying" so perhaps you have other things going on).
On the other hand, I see Exploit posting things in his spoiler thread, and the paranoid part of me thinks that you would probably be on his "hit list" of folks to try and get on his side.
So here I am. I don't know what all to say that hasn't been said before, but maybe I should say some of those same things again? I know that you were joking out about "taking Green Township off my hands", but I do think that it's reasonable to expect some sort of arrangement between the two of us. And while I don't know that I would really be looking forward to giving up the very first city I founded (and probably the best non-capital in the game), I don't want to make it seem like I want to be greedy. Actually I feel very much the opposite. I do understand what it would be like if I were far and away "the leader"
So like I said - I don't know if Exploit has talked to you or not. I don't know what he's offered you - maybe he thinks that if you and he both attack me that you could get GT and everything else on that side of things. And who knows - maybe he's right. I don't know how I might react if forced to fight on both sides.
But I really hope it doesn't come to that....
In any case, talk to you soon - I should be around off and on this weekend
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