[SPOILERS] Pindicator plays PBEM62 (not to be confused with Twitch Plays Civ)

[Gaspar]

If you throw a sandbox together I'm likely to take a casual poke at it but as anyone who has teamed with me can attest - emphasis on the casual. I guess more aptly if you want to do it for yourself, throw me a link to a copy but don't build one on account of me.

I think time on first city is often overrated. Usually when you see someone plant a super fast 2nd city it means they didn't get proper worker support so I think t24 is fine, though given it was a first pass, I'm sure with some iteration we can probably improve. And warriors are going to be really important if we're cramped. But generally speaking, its hard to do too much until you have some idea of 2nd city site since that informs the worker micro so heavily.

I can't imagine a tech path other than the one you outlined there. t18 BW with a t24 second city is plenty of time to find out which direction the settler needs to head, though with only 2 visible resources I'd be shocked if copper and/or horse wasn't at the capital.

[pindicator]

I'm suspicious of that bare hill SE of the capital personally.

As for improving on this variation, the only difference I can think of is whether you'd rather grow from size 3 -> 4 on a grass hill mine instead of a cottage and emphasize hammers instead of growing cottages. Or maybe try for worker->worker->grow to 4->settler.

There's probably more luck to be had in exploring different opening philosophies altogether

Edit: Yeah, forget opening with double worker. It's just slower. You can only hope to make up for it by chopping everything in sight a la Sullla, and there's no way mass chopping in this start is worthwhile (unless you pick India).

[pindicator]

Aw shit, I missed the part where GZ said the tech costs were set to a standard sized map. That's probably going to mess things up...

Edit: All that did was push back Pottery & BW a turn. No harm done to worker turns or build timings.

[Gaspar]

Yeah, I'm generally opposed to clearcutting your capital for a couple settlers unless you're India or something. I subscribe to the theory that one or two chops is fine but I'd rather save them for a wonder.

Worker -> Worker is almost never viable unless you're chopping the 2nd worker which usually means you're China.

[pindicator]

We have a save!

But I'm at work for the next 6 hours

[pindicator]

Took a look at worker-warrior-settler. Not a fan. The settler comes out 5 turns earlier but everything else is so much later: second worker, growing to 4, and if we want a granary it needs to be chopped or whipped to get it in the same time frame. Being able to build that 2nd worker in 4t with worker-warrior-worker is just too strong.

[pindicator]

Final Fantasy Tactics it is!



No, scratch that. There's nothing meager about our role in this game.



We're not the naive and true-hearted Ramza, fighting injustice even if it meant fighting his own brothers. We're not even the rags-to-riches and conniving Delita, playing all sides towards his own goals. Our seat is at Igros. We're the corrupt establishment, the Dycedargs, the Wiegrafs, the High Priest Zalmos. We're the badguys in this pbem, you can rest assured that other players are going to treat us that way. Let's not pretend otherwise.

If we were Velius we would win this turn. (Hint: See screenshot for why. Admittedly, the connection is a bit of a stretch. (2nd hint: that's a pun!))

(That and I couldn't figure out how to make Magick City of Gariland fit within 15 characters. We'll cross that bridge later, I'm sure.)

Getting away from the meta and into the actual game, I moved the scout to the forested hill, spotted the fur, and thought "cool, we can hook up furs in 30-some turns". No reason to move the capital off the plains hill, so settle in place it was. Hunting first, and the techs are indeed set to a standard-sized map.

From the score breakdown:

• Each Pop Point is worth ~7.911 points of score.
  
• Each Land Point is worth ~3.165 points of score.

I'm not sure how much C&D I'll run. I probably should just do the basics: number of cities, land tiles, number of total citizens, era technologies and likely techs, wonders. Just what you can devise from the score, really. Well, if I have time.

[Gaspar]

Love the Tactics stuff. If my playstation wasn't borked I'd totally go play it again now.

I'd guess we'll just go with Gariland at some point.

I'll start the opponent profiles tomorrow. Perhaps I'll equate the players to FF characters for the "wild card" spot this time, to stay on theme. Or maybe FFT skills or something. We'll see how creative I'm feeling.

Not much to say about the turn, other than my loathing for mapmakers always putting calendar resources close to home to taunt you. I shall call a jungled Dye a Gawdzak.

[pindicator]

Love the Tactics stuff. If my playstation wasn't borked I'd totally go play it again now.

One of my all-time favorites. I don't know how many times I've beaten it. And last summer I was one of the suckers that bought the iPad version. I may not be a fan of anything new Square-Enix does but they do know how to hit that nostalgia button.

I shall call a jungled Dye a Gawdzak.

It only takes one map!

[Gaspar]

Okay, here goes nothing...

A Dedlurker's Guide to PBEM62 Opponents

Public Enemy #1 - Commodore



Playing as...

Charlemagne of India (Imperialistic, Protective, Mining, Mysticism, Fast Worker, Mausoleum)




Sure, why not?

Known Knowns:

Here's a snippet of what I said about him from PB19:

Commodore has played the most games here of anyone in this game - possibly of anyone, period. It certainly feels like he's in every game. He's had three distinct periods of his MP Civ career here. Period 1 - Peaceful builder early, spiteful warrior late. Period 2 - I AM COMMODORE, HEAR ME ROAR. Period 3 - No, seriously, look at me all peaceful and Canadian. I think we take a little of column A and a little of column B. There's no question though that he didn't like his angry young man reputation but there's also no question that he's something roughly akin to an immovable object. That in and of itself won't win you anything, but it sure as hell means its hard for you to lose. He's quite capable at managing a midgame economy but he's a little too in love with some of the same themes, particularly Liberalism and Fishing Villages. He's a good player - better than I've previously given him credit for. His biggest weakness is that he loves the cute play, and I think that shows in his pick.

For the most part - I think this still applies. The thing about Commodore is he's really stopped improving from what I can see and its largely because he's too caught up in his various crusades - RtR Mod > sliced bread; "Indie" leaders > all; #fucknoblehelium... and the biggest of them... woe is me, if only not for the evil no-soul neckbeards like <whomever is winning his current game>, he'd have a bunch of wins. Within him, there's enough skill to really be a Tier 3-ish player. Unfortunately, his refusal to learn in pursuit of what he believes is right probably has him more like Tier 5.

As far as the pick, well, if you could draw up the platonic ideal of a Commodorian choice, this is it. It contains a thing - Fast Workers - which will allow him to stay competitive but it also hamstrings himself enough to take himself out of the competition. I've played PRO before (not by choice.) It is a null trait. There are no situations in base BTS where taking it is correct, literally every other trait gives more value. Imperialistic is a mid-tier trait in a vacuum and can help with claiming land but it really needs to either go all in on expansion (CRE/EXP) or have an economic trait to balance it (FIN/ORG). Its not the sort of trait that can really stand on its own (This is why we don't usually see IMP picked with another B trait.) The problem is, by the time we reach t75, he is basically playing null civ, except for the best combat workers in the game. If this were a very large map I could probably be convinced that the quality of fast workers is good enough that you can get by taking a garbage leader. But on a map described as cramped? There just won't be enough worker turns to save to save this pick. Just so I'm addressing everything, the Mausoleum is too late to care and Mining/Mysticism is poor but nobody is beating India to Stonehenge if they want it.

Known Unknowns:

Given the sheer number of games he's played, I honestly don't know if there are any unknowns left about Commodore. He is who he is - fan favorite, flawed but significant player. Given the pick here, I can't imagine this being the game where he deviates.

Commodore Profile

Peace Weight: 5/10
Unit probability: 10/10
Wonders: 9/10

Flavors: Cottages, Knights
D&D Alignment: Lawful Good (He's a crusader if there ever was one.)

Commodore's Yearbook

Final Fantasy Character:

FOR MOTHER!
Final Fantasy Tactics Job:

He should really be a Samurai by now, but its way more indie to stay a Knight.
Twitch Emoticon:

Likeliness to Succeed:

Quality of Selection:

Exploitable Weakness: Picked Charlemagne willingly.
Biggest Fear: Picked Charlemagne willingly with intent to get into an old-school slugfest with nearest opponent with CHEAP WALLS AND WELL PROMOTED ARCHERZ (and that nearest opponent is us.)
Pregame Prediction: 2nd

EDIT: Original post erroneously noted Charlemagne with Churchill's traits, has since been update to reflect my error.