{SPOILERS} 2metra, Dreylin & OT4E. This is the beginning of a wonderful friendship.

[Dreylin]

Another quick bit of thought; 3 civs & 1 leader have been picked, with 6 further down the chain that means that when it gets back we would either be picking the 10th civ or the 8th leader. Not a great difference, but maybe a reason to lean towards a civ pick first?

Zulu/Persia/Egypt all have good early UUs, decent techs and buildings (well, maybe not Egypt). If we wanted to go for a religion, Arabia might be a good choice with Agri replacing Wheel and cheaper libraries that can also run priests.

In summary, too much good stuff + no plan = flailing randomly. So if you have a plan, go for it!


and an edit to a previous post; Korea has been changed from Myst to Agri...

[2metraninja]

This is where I am a lot back - the changes in RB mod. I will tell only you, but I signed up before knowing it is RB mod lol. We will play it the best we can.

Let me read what you wrote and will comment some. Sadly I cant read or post at this forum at work, so my nights are the time where I catch up.

[Dreylin]

I'm heading to an off-site meeting for the next couple of hours and I think I brain-dumped my thoughts, so if you have a strong feeling, go with it - I'm just the hanger-on after all!

[2metraninja]

OK, after reading the changes, but being not too in to the new fancy combos which this mod gives, seeing that actually all leaders are allowed, I think it will be a shame to not take Pakal When in doubt, bet on something known. Yes, both EXP and FIN are nerfed to some degree, but I think they are still OK all-round traits. And I want/hope for a more peaceful game, this will be. Pakal, unless you have some serious alternative

Will wait for few more hours before posting to give you time to comment.

[Dreylin]

Can't fault the logic, no arguments from me.

Also EXP fits with founding in place to keep the Sheep 1st ring so we can get the bonus on the opening Worker.

Let's see what civs come back round and maybe we'll see some crazy ideas there. Probably a bit early to speculate, but I'm noodling around with the potential of Arabia - cheap libraries, decent UU & OK starting techs. probably pushes us to pick up an early Religion. I guess we'll see what comes back....

[Dreylin]

So I've been messing about with a bit of a sandbox and it seems that the limit of the start is production. There are no 3hammer tiles, so we're going to need Mining and probably BW in fairly short order.

[Dreylin]

So, 2 more Leaders and 2 Civs have gone:

Darius (FIN/ORG) immediately after us and then Shaka (AGR/EXP); not much to say here I think, both good general picks.

On the Civs side, we have Inca and Zulu added to the list of early UUs to tread carefully around.

Inca also sees the first Mysticism starting tech, but my playing about last night showed that our start does not support a Religion-first push because we run out of Worker techs. (Assuming I got the map right to correctly give the tech costs) My test of Arabia need us to go Hunting/Mining, Hunt/Mine/BW, then Hunt/BW for the first 3 techs, but then we could go for a Religion if they were available. I'll also note that Inca are less likely to go for Stonehenge since they have Terrace culture.

All these early UUs are starting to worry me. It sounds like there will be enough space to avoid a Quechua rush; but we'll have to dodge Impis & Vultures early and then Hwachas & Chocks ... of course this is probably a reality of any game of this type and it's just my lack of recent experience showing!

EXP helps us early game with workers and mid game with Health and economic buildings (Market/Grocer) and FIN kicks into gear mid game when we start getting cottages down, so we've got a bit of strength through the game. I think starting techs are less important than a solid UU/UB to take advantage of, because we can probably out-tech one Worker at our Capital and I don't know there's enough "stuff" for us to be able to fully take advantage of a second until we are ready to chop out the first Settler.

Meh, we'll see what comes around before speculating more.

[Dreylin]

and while I was writing that we've rolled out to the first 2 combos (speeding up here):

Huayna Capac of England - first IND leader, the English are mid-late game power with a Fishing starting tech (I wonder if Gavagi has a coastal start?)

Tokugawa of The Netherlands - I'm learning that Commodore has a reputation for quirk PRO/AGR will give cheap Granaries & Barracks, so potential early snowballing. Dike will give him Moai in each city in the later game, & souped up Galleons - again, maybe a coastal start.

I don't think I've noted previously, but the start shows coast to the North of the Corn, but not to the NW or NE as far as I can tell.

[Dreylin]

2 civs to be picked before us, so let's look at some options:

Arabia (mentioned before): Madrassas are 70h in the mod for a quick start, decent mid-game UU, Agri/Myst start means we could go Religion after initial set-up Worker techs.

Mali: no changes from base BTS - Skirm for early deterence, Mint for extra GNP, Wheel/Mining techs would let us go Hunting-BW starting. Boring choice / not taking advantage of the mod?

India: Fast Workers have been nerfed a bit as have starting techs, but still good potential. Extra MM a plus or minus here?

HRE/Aztec: same starting techs, mediocre early UU, but a Courthouse variant UB

Ethiopian or France for mid-game UU - Ethiopia has better starting techs (BW first?), but the tweak to Salon helps, and of course Musketeers.

Other options: Rome (meh techs, nerfed Praets, cheap Forums for GPP), blargh work needs me maybe more thoughts later....

[Dreylin]

aaaand we're up for Civ!

Shaka of Carthage - an aggressive pairing to be avoided if possible! (does the Carthage choice indicate a watery start for GermanBorsche?)

Darius of Ottoman - no change to the Otts, happyduct & Musket that eats obsolete units.

So my thoughts:

If we want an early UU we go with Mali's Skirms, decent starting techs & UB.

Later UU, I would /probably/ choose France's Musketeers & the updated Salon over the better starting techs of Ethiopia.

We could always try rushing someone with Egypt, but we haven't chosen traits for that really ... or picking incase HAKFlakes want to pair it with Boudica!

Personally I'd like to try Arabia. Push for an early Religion, then use the cheap Libraries to grab a priest for the shrine and ride that into FIN Banks and onwards to victory. My feeling is that we'd be vulnerable early, but should pick up quickly. Mali would probably be second choice for a safer early game, but not a whole lot of difference from a standard game either.