[Spoilers] REM and AdrienIer's thread of football, spamming and blaming it on the mod

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Yeah I guess dutch would have been nice... Ah well. There are definitely a lack of rivers there. No one we can see has the GLH yet.

Nothing huge to report this turn, did as I said above. Attempted a dotmap for the south of that other continent, take a look at it when you have a chance. Popped into and out of HAKs visibility - keep him guessing from where he met us! We should be careful with map trades now, I think we got a great deal there and shouldn't give just anyone that knowledge. Or perhaps ask for gold for them...

[Old Harry]

Now the bad points. You're right, we had a terrible 2nd city compared to everyone else, and I really do not know where we could have put a better one, for more resources. I would love to hear how some of the lurkers would have put the cap (either SIP or where we did) and city 2, as it cannot change our play now. If we had settled in place we would have struggled to get a food sharing site picking up more resources, struggled to get something for the silvers with food and another city for the copper. I don't know where else we could have gone. Compare that to mackoti who got 2 food 1 copper first ring of city 2 (all non tundra tiles) or GJ 2nd city being able to be put in the right direction towards us allowing him to pick up resources and lock us in and we have some rather duff land. Also with that much land who knows how many huts they managed to nab

Well looking at it now I'd have gone for SIP and a city 3S to share the corn and work the silver(s) very early. But on t0 you didn't know the silver was there - without that knowledge I can't say for sure if I'd move to a plains hill and lose two food resources, but I don't think I would. I'd at least want to know what tiles I was gaining moving to the hill, so move the scout S-E instead of north, from where you'd have seen the silver, but wishes and horses and stuff.


With SIP a city 1E of copper, another 2N or SE (or both) of the sheep and (eventually) one E of the horses would work alright.

With the start you had your western cities are fine, but that second city must have cost you a lot in worker turns, delay settling, increased maintenance (although maintenance isn't too bad on this map is it?), etc...

[AdrienIer]

Turn is played, looking at the land mackoti build a 5th city in the west and has improved clams and stone. Next settler is due next turn, what's next for MCG ? We have enough workers for now IMO (although one or two more soon won't be a waste), maybe barracks for potential future whips ? An archer or two could also be of use, and an axe and spear as well. We also have the possibility of a library but I'm not sure it's worth it in MCG.
I lost another worker turn by misunderstanding your summary, I read too fast your stuff about the worker chopping 2N of the MCG sign and sent him towards MCG before realizing that you meant 1N of the sign (where he originally was). He'll start cottaging next turn, meaning a 1-turn delay on the 30h chop.

[AdrienIer]

Oh didn't see your post there OH, I also noticed the spot 2S of the corn that could have been a good second city, it would've meant a late settle of the east though. MCG didn't cost much at first, -1gpt in maintenance so what you'd expect for a second city.

I played the new turn, the new city will be settled next turn with the sheep pastured. I put MCG on an archer and CN on a lighthouse. The new WB is going west, it'll scout the western island to the west for a few turn before returning to the crab site.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Oh didn't see your post there OH, I also noticed the spot 2S of the corn that could have been a good second city, it would've meant a late settle of the east though. MCG didn't cost much at first, -1gpt in maintenance so what you'd expect for a second city.

I played the new turn, the new city will be settled next turn with the sheep pastured. I put MCG on an archer and CN on a lighthouse. The new WB is going west, it'll scout the western island to the west for a few turn before returning to the crab site.

Just jumped in, was next on my play list - changed the cap to work the corn, and CN the cottage. It will still grow next turn but gets the settler out quicker and CN does not need any further growth for a while.

Not quite sure another archer is the best idea... If we go unit then a barracks or a spear I think. but probably the best build would be a galley that we could 1 pop whip. We need 1 soon to start attempting to settle the other continent... Although we will need some barb defense there too actually. Left it on archer but not hugely convinced by it.

Otherwise all good! Don't worry about wasting a worker turn, it happens. Score is looking healthier now. I know early on it doesn't mean much but it does massage the ego a little :P

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Now the bad points. You're right, we had a terrible 2nd city compared to everyone else, and I really do not know where we could have put a better one, for more resources. I would love to hear how some of the lurkers would have put the cap (either SIP or where we did) and city 2, as it cannot change our play now. If we had settled in place we would have struggled to get a food sharing site picking up more resources, struggled to get something for the silvers with food and another city for the copper. I don't know where else we could have gone. Compare that to mackoti who got 2 food 1 copper first ring of city 2 (all non tundra tiles) or GJ 2nd city being able to be put in the right direction towards us allowing him to pick up resources and lock us in and we have some rather duff land. Also with that much land who knows how many huts they managed to nab

Well looking at it now I'd have gone for SIP and a city 3S to share the corn and work the silver(s) very early. But on t0 you didn't know the silver was there - without that knowledge I can't say for sure if I'd move to a plains hill and lose two food resources, but I don't think I would. I'd at least want to know what tiles I was gaining moving to the hill, so move the scout S-E instead of north, from where you'd have seen the silver, but wishes and horses and stuff.


With SIP a city 1E of copper, another 2N or SE (or both) of the sheep and (eventually) one E of the horses would work alright.

With the start you had your western cities are fine, but that second city must have cost you a lot in worker turns, delay settling, increased maintenance (although maintenance isn't too bad on this map is it?), etc...

Interesting ideas. The reasons for the 2nd city and cap are different.

The reason why we moved is we found it a lot faster to go to the plains hill rather than SIP. If they were like animal or grain sources then I would imagine that we would have settled in place. But even with the exp WB bonus, the amount that we needed early on was slowing us up a lot, before you factor in gaining the extra hammer from the tile. On sims with no further resources it was still a lot faster, although it did make settling a 2nd city awkward.

Then the reason why we went for that 2nd city is we didn't want to get boxed in (even though we did). It was the best location on route to the choke point. Not having any resources first ring did not harm us too much going worker first there as we got the exp bonus and chopped him out. The main pain was the worker turns, although with a lot of seafood sources they weren't as tight as they might have otherwise been. (hunting would not have been in for a fair while pre settle)

That's not a bad dotmap overall. I think if we were gonna settle in place we would have picked shaka as a first pick and trie,d to get something like netherlands back up. But then the issue is a worker is sitting pretty after farming until BW comes in really. I am very used to games that do not last very long, so am always looking for the bonus yield from the city tile.

I don't think we would be as big as we are now with a SIP... But I may be wrong.

[AdrienIer]

I forgot to mention it, we'll be a bit short on gold to finish maths, do you think we should save gold now or wait for a better time ?

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

I saw that - save gold is best I think. We are hitting people getting to the classical age with tech bonuses soon, so might as well delay as much as possible.

[Old Harry]

Did you sim wb-wb-worker for the first city?

The trouble with that second city is that the third city would have to be on the choke point, only a few tiles from your opponents capital and without any strategic resources. I'd rather build up a civ capable of punching through when you've got a support structure for those cities.

[AdrienIer]

In the page 5 sims my best was with WB-worker-warrior-settler but I can't remember if I actually tried WB-WB-worker.

The huge advantage with a third city at GJ's 3ChordDorks is that 2 warriors would've been able to defend it for a super long time, because the copper wouldn't have been hooked for long and we could even have taken it culturally with a hindu spread or barracks build or something. That would've crippled GJ a lot, leaving us the possibility to eventually take his land as well as ours. It was a gamble of course but GJ got there first so no regrets.