[spoilers] Going Dutch: The Commodore Files

[Mardoc]

Although I agree that those fillers will be worthwhile eventually - I hope they're not first on your list! Maybe the one up by the plako-fish is worth settling quickly, as the only chance to get the fish for ourselves. But the others won't really pay until you have time to get your irrigation done, and into better civics.

Island hopping, on the other hand! Instant good trade routes, generally strong food that can be improved early, and it's territory that others will claim if we don't get out there fast. I guess I count that little sea as this category, too, since we can't walk there.

[Commodore]

Sooooo, bad news about that peninsula thing. Looks like Plako is in a mood to contest, even contest sans worker support. That's going to be annoying.

Hitpoints are overrated.

I did poorly in isolating Plako; GermanJojo treats with him now, so he is aware of the wider world. I really, really don't want to fight him but I will if I must. We're on good terms with everyone but Mackoti, Plako, and Dtay...pity those are also the best of our rivals.

Why is anyone doing anything with Mackoti?

I might choose to pursue this violent. Dead Beat is growing like a weed on generally meh coastal tiles, so I think I'll squeeze a rapid 5-turn great person out of here when the golden age fires. I could go for a Great Artist and turn towards making a heavy levy of horse archers and swords to fully secure the peninsulas...but are those cities worth it? Honest question. I just feel tired at the thought of battling Plako for this.

I just want dikes everywhere right now, is that too much to ask?

[Mardoc]

are those cities worth it? Honest question.

[spacetyrantxenu]

Oh come on, you can fight plako. You won't start having trouble until dtay piles in on the other side....

[Mardoc]

Ok, so a slightly more helpful thought:
I think it depends on how you see plako long-term.

From a purely Dutch perspective, there's really no reason to consider the peninsulae ours and the city north of Proven Guilty his. The peninsula is a strong site, and it's a tactical threat, but that's what we get for pushing south so aggressively. Console yourself with the dtay border. The one thing we can't realistically have is a limited war for the peninsulae only, and eternal peace afterward - not without diplo enabled. Maybe...maybe limited war followed by eternal vigilance afterward. At best.

Do we expect to have to fight Plako eventually anyway? It seems to me that we can expand elsewhere, to the islands and maybe HAK and maybe (maybe!) dtay. I don't know if Plako can expand elsewhere, or if he'll have to come through us.
I wish we had more scouting info - maybe offer another round of map trades to people? Heck, maybe offer a map trade to plako directly?

But. If we can realistically have peace with him forever, or at least peace until endgame - then let it go.

If we can't have eternal peace - then we need to start taking advantages where we can. But, honestly, look at it as a holistic threat/opportunity. Don't fight for the peninsuale - fight plako wherever/whenever we can make profit. I suspect this is a combination of small offenses and defensive standoffs, so the most important tech for a plako-war is Construction.

So...look at this from his perspective, please! Are we gonna fight anyway?

And, if we are, are you really sure that the Classical era is the best time to kick off? Peninsulae ought to be well vulnerable to East Indiamen. Sure, letting him have ports on that sea are a problem, but fighting at the other end of a galley chain seems difficult, too.

[Commodore]

Well, tricksy tricksy Mackoti just *gifted* us his map, and it contained a surprise.

Also offered a gold luxury for open borders, but screw that.

Needs a lot of thinking. I will say as a side note though that there are exactly zero non-death futures that don't include "Eternal Vigilance".

[spacetyrantxenu]

Holy crap that's a lot of land. Not doing an evaluation from my cell phone, but that looks like a lot more than you got.

[Mardoc]

Yeah, although much of Plako's is tundra/ice/desert, it's still a lot. And a lot of coast, too.

Course, the gripping hand is this: What would you find to be Fun? Pretty sure we're not winning, so Fun is the only reason to continue anyway.

[spacetyrantxenu]

Fighting plako usually isn't fun. Did you enjoy your previous two engagements with dtay? The third conquest will confirm for him how much you treasure his company (Or his land). Or stay on theme, you're Dutch. Go for a naval campaign. Own the Pacific.

[Whosit]

Amphibious Knights?

Urgh, nevermind. For a second I thought the AGG bonus applied to mounted units, too for some reason.