[Spoilers] PBEM 62 - Ichabod's Thread, feat. Mardoc and retep

[retep]

Empaty in highschool? Where is full of teenagers? Never saw that happen.

Third world educational system sucks a lot, but I think everywhere the people with more money/influence will always get away with things they shouldn't that is just how the world works.

At least you have scholarships in Brazil, over here that is just starting recently in some private schools, of course public schools are worse ,sometimes they don't even have roofs, but hey they're free!

[Mardoc]

Commodore tells me we're at war. What's going on?

Mixed feelings. On the one hand, I want to take his stuff. At least the Tidmouth island city. On the other - the only real advantage we have is GNP, and that hasn't gone toward military tech yet. Maybe it should be defensive war until Guilds still.

[Ichabod]

He attacked the worker that was chopping for the new east city (pictures after I play the turn). It was good timing for us, because I was about to settle that city (which I'll settle on the northern peninsula now) and I'd have lost it. He killed a chariot, a spear and captured a worker. Annoying, but not so bad.

I'm getting some more defenses in Milk and I'll not settle the other east city anytime soon. We finish construction this turn and I want to show a catapult to Commodore as soon as possible, to make a real attack less likely. I think it's not very likely, really, because Commodore wouldn't have showed his hand only for a worker, if that was the case. It was just a good, opportunistic attack, that will make me have to settle elsewhere (luckily, we have a good city spot on that peninsula to the north, with rice + iron - probably a naval pump city, considering it's in the biggest sea on the map) + he got a free worker. And he knows I can't counterattack. Besides, it's obvious we'll never be friends in this game. So, all in all, his move makes a lot of sense and I probably should have thought about it earlier.

THH offered peace, which i'll probably accept. Dazed took one city from THH, leaving him with just 2. I can't make gains against THH right now, not without pissing off Dazed and losing more than I'd like to.

So, here's what we have to decide: do we want to win this game by attacking Commodore or by surpassing him economically. If we want to attack him, we should probably rush guilds and just knight him. That seems more difficult. If we want to win by economy, we go for music while building a defensive catapult + whatever stack. We take a bit more time to guilds, but we secure the Taj Mahal (I think we should just bulb our way to Liberalism, instead of getting an Academy in the Capital - it's too late to actually profit from an Academy, while getting nationalism through Liberalism would be really nice). After that, we conquer Dazed/THH, and we'll have more land, a better economy and we can just defend against Commodore, which is easier. The whole area of THH/Dazed/Me is very defensible from Commodore.

So, yeah, he attacked, but not that big of a deal. We just need to get some more units in Milk and nothing more will happen, I guess.

[Mardoc]

I like cat + HA. Flanking makes a big difference in case he brings a lot of cats of his own. I suggest you add in a couple galleys and/or triremes to make him come overland. I guess you're right that we won't likely see a serious invasion attempt, unless Milk stays vulnerable. But he does have maybe 30% more power than we do now, which might tempt him until we catch up.

I think I agree that a guilds beeline wouldn't work too well against Commodore. He's not *that* far behind, and knights do have counters. Better to get a golden age or two to push our MFG lead. But...can we pick up engineering, maybe Machinery, before going back to an economic focus? 3-move roads would really help, especially since Dazed isn't far from being free to act himself. Maces might be overkill, I guess it depends on how expensive the techs are.

Although - a knight beeline would probably work against Dazed.

I think we should just bulb our way to Liberalism, instead of getting an Academy in the Capital - it's too late to actually profit from an Academy, while getting nationalism through Liberalism would be really nice

I don't see that, myself. If we're not going to use an academy, then we're not going to use universities or Oxford either. And I don't see much benefit in Free Religion, or Free Speech - almost entirely Judaism, almost no towns. In which case - why not just go straight for Nationalism? Use the scientist as part of a third golden age to boost our MFG at the same time as we get more military techs. I'm pretty sure that Nationalism isn't more expensive than Edu + Lib, even with a bulb to help.

About the only advantage I see to the liberalism path is that getting Education might let us skip guilds entirely and go for Cuirs instead. You're already planning Nationalism and Music, which leaves only gunpowder and MilTrad as requirements.

[Ichabod]

Well... I feel this game is over.

Commodore gave me peace and that's really a big thing. He had almost 100k power more than I. But with 10t of peace to work with, I'll have more than enough to defend myself + conquer someone.




I had 2 important RNG rolls to do this turn. First, killing this barb, which would make it possible to settle the 15th city in this turn. Unfortunately, we lost the combat, so it'll have to wait a turn. We'll certainly settle the city next turn, because of some juggling with units and a galley that I did, which covers all the bases.




The other one went better. I successfully spread judaism to PPM, the confucian holy city. So, coupled with the peace with Commodore, I decided to build a barracks there, instead of another unit.







Here's the planned research path, on the way to Music and the Great Artist for a Golden Age. I'll also build the NE really slowly in GT and TGLib will be chopped in Masala Chai. I'm entirely sure Music will be down to only 2 turns (perhaps even 1t, if I want it to). I can see Commodore's research, he's accumulating gold with Feudalism selected, so the only rush I have here is that I want to fire my Golden Age.




After that, I'll likely get Metal Casting and Feudalism. Then, I decide between Nationalism and Guilds, what to go for first.

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Overview:




Cities:




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Some interesting cities:

The captured city of Guangzhou, building wealth to stockpile the chop for a temple, after I spread Judaism there next turn. It'll be a race between this city and High point, captured by Dazed, to see who gets second ring borders first, which gets the silver and a riverside corn. I think Dazed will beat me there with his SH monument, but I'll have 2 culture per turn from religion + temple, so I think i'll get the tiles back soon.




Moai city, will grow unhappy at size 8, but I'll keep it growing for the REP happy to kick in (there's some happy resources coming online soon too). This city is really, really good now and it'll be amazing when we fire the GA.




Capital! Probably need a lighthouse here to keep growing. It's not amazing, but it's decent enough.




Masala Chai, which will be chopped to the ground for TGLib. It has decent production by itself, we have marble and OR... Probably won't even need all the chops for it.




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And here's why I think the game is over:




To note, Commodore is on a GA. He's saving gold, but I still make more than him (+ rep beakers), at 100% gold. I'm about to fire my own GA, which won't be boosted by MoM, but which will be from a free GP and I'm absolutely sure I'll get the Taj. I think Commodore wants to finish Pindicator soon, but even after that, I don't think he'll be able to compete with me. I have way better expanding prospects in Dazed and THH (which are very backwards), I have way better control of the most important sea in the map and a really defensible chokepoint in land, I'll most likely get most of the first to bonuses (after MC, I'll try Colossus, which probably doesn't even matter much to Commodore, but will be really good to me). Finally, I'm yet to reach my Civ bonuses, being the english and I have better lategame traits - he's india and PRO/IMP.

That reminds me that banking is a pretty decent tech for me. Mercantilism is really good in this map, seeing that all ITRs suck (+ early REP), and Stock Exchanges are nice.

I can't wait to trigger my own GA and see how the demos look. Commodore probably thinks I used my GEng on the HG, so he probably thinks he has a chance to nab the Taj. But on the current situation, that's a really long shot. Afer Nationalism and Guilds, I could probably try to Lib Military tradition for cuirs and cavs. The plan is to get 3 GAs in sequence (1 from the Music GA; 1 from Taj and 1 from two spawned GPs), get first to bonuses, pile longbows + cats in Milk, conquer Dazed...

Anyway, I'm really confident, now that I have 10t of guaranteed peace. Hopefully the turns come soon, so I can fire my GA!

[Mardoc]

Looks good, and solid. I have one quibble: why so many axes/spears, when you've unlocked cats and HA?

What does Feudalism buy us this early? I wouldn't think we'd want Vassalage instead of OrgRel, or really find much use for longbows. If we're going to pick up an insurance military tech, I'd suggest Machinery and/or Engineering instead - 3-move roads are huge, maces and crossbows and pike all seem more useful than longbows. Even when defending Milk, I'd rather have cats + hitters than a big stack of longbows.

[Ichabod]

I talked with Commodore and he agreed to call the game. I don't think we'll have any sort of disagreement from the other players, so I guess that's it. Good game!

Thanks retep and Mardoc for all the help. I'd probably have lost my focus on the first 50 turns of the game if it wasn't for you keeping me engaged.

I hope I was able to deliver with my spoiler thread, at least to some level of satisfaction.

I'll probably post some more toughts later. I'm off to read the other threads for now.

[Mardoc]

Thanks for keeping me amused! Well played.

[Ichabod]

Password is Ichabod, by the way. If anyone wants to see the last save, just ask.

[TheHumanHydra]

Good game, Ichabod. Really well played; I'm impressed.

I know it's been a little while now, but I was shocked to read about the robbery of your parents. I did not guess that violence was involved. I hope they are doing okay now.

I would be interested to play against you in future. I enjoyed your thread and respected your gameplay. I'd be interested to read a thread of a game involving us in which I was able to put up more of a challenge.

Good job again!