RB Pitboss #1 SPOILER - Hatshepsut / India

[regoarrarr]

It looks like Biology is changing the game here. Looks good. What Legal Civic are you running? Bureaucracy? What is your plan to get more specialist slots in Forest Park? Do you have any options besides slow-building the requisite buildings? I'm guessing that Caste System wouldn't be a good switch. I understand that it's not considered strong for the late-game.

(New thought: I guess hiring a dozen citizen specialists will still bring in some hammers until you can fill out more slots.)

And I guess you want to turn all this new food into hammers by feeding production tiles or whatnot? Thanks for the pics, looks interesting. (Oh, are you planning to give the one forest from Arlington Hills to Forest Park?) And at a quick glance, it looks like, supposing you do switch to State Property, after you let Arlington Hills grow into all of its land tiles, you can workshop over all but one farm and stagnate, unless you want to keep a small food surplus. That would add 27 base hammers total, I think. Seems pretty good to me.

Thanks for the comments Whosit! A few replies. I'm not sure how exactly things will go. In my SP games, this is about the time that I kind of go on auto pilot

1) I am currently running Nationhood. My thought was that I would swap out to Bureaucracy for 5t or so (I'm spiritual) once Assembly Line comes in (and I can only 2-pop draft infantries). But that will cost me 23gpt in civic costs (*28% inflation so call it 30) and gain me 50 beakers and 10 hammers. Also loses 2 happy in most cities and the ability to draft, of course. Oh and loses a few espionage points too.

2) At Arlington I count 3 plains workshops (4 hammers) 6 grassland workshops (3 hammers) and 2 grass mines (4 hammers w RR), plus 1 from the city center and 2 from the plains forest preserve, so 41 base hammers. That is -6 food so 2 farms and the city center should do it. If I understand correctly, it doesn't matter what city actually has control of the forest preserve tile, and if it overlaps in multiple cities' BFCs, then they both get the +1 happy (and I assume the free spec for the Park city). Obviously if not, then yes, I will give it to Forest Park.

3) As far as Labor - I'm currently in Slavery and I actually have considered Caste. Not only for the obvious benefits in Forest Park, but the fact that it also gives workshops +1 hammer. So make that 50 base hammers in Arlington!! I may give Serfdom a few turns too (yay Spiritual again!) as I try and do some of this terraforming. Unfortunately it doesn't save me any time on RRing. On Quick speed, serfdom+steam power means 1 turn roads and railroads.

4) I currently have a library, so that's 2 scientist specs, and will soon whip a Hindu Temple (half price yay spiritual again!) so that's a 3rd. I am building a university but obviously that will take awhile. And like you said, citizen specs aren't great but they're not the end of the world.

[regoarrarr]

HR/Nat/Slav/FM/Theo?

HR because it is the only way to make the happyness add up,
Nat because barracks give 2 happy,
Slav because the button is usable in AH,
FM because of the # of trade routes,
and I have no idea about the religious civic...

Ding ding ding!

But like I said in my reply to Whosit, I have a few thoughts of other civics I'd like to run. What would you run in my place?

[Krill]

HR/FS/Serf/Envi/pac?

:neenernee

[Whosit]

If I understand correctly, it doesn't matter what city actually has control of the forest preserve tile, and if it overlaps in multiple cities' BFCs, then they both get the +1 happy (and I assume the free spec for the Park city). Obviously if not, then yes, I will give it to Forest Park.

This is something I can at least tell you with certainty: The National Park city must control the Forest Preserve tiles in order to get the free specialists from them. Furthermore, the extra point of happiness only goes to whichever city currently controls any give Forest Preserve tile. No double-dipping here!

I took another look at the Forest Park picture; are you going to Preserve the Furs forest? Might not be a bad idea. You have 13 forests there, more if you get lucky and some grow on the bare tiles (don't put roads there, obviously!). And since preserves are supposed to increase the likelihood of a forest spread, it might just happen.

Since you have a Library built, and a University queued, I take it that you value beakers over gold? If you did switch to Caste . . . . Well, 13 x 3 of whatever. 39 base beakers or 39 base gold if you go all Scientists or all Merchants. And I'm pretty sure those get multiplied by the appropriate buildings. If you had a Market, Grocer, and Bank, you could get 78 gold per turn, if my math and logic is right. And all the GP points, too, though maybe Great Merchants won't do you much good? Anyway, I generally find that running lots of Merchants helps since you can usually turn the slider up higher, which usually nets you more beakers overall. But just my thoughts. I like the National Park wonder.

Or if you wanted to be silly, build all the espionage buildings and run max spies.

[regoarrarr]

Email to folks

Well, as you may have seen in the public player thread, Imhotep has said that he will be out of the game in 5 turns. I checked in game, and Imhotep has gifted all of his cities (save the capital) to Exploit. He now has 33 cities. His 2 newest cities have now opened a 2nd front with me in the north (between my city of Arlington Heights and his new city of Defiance.

There is also a city called "Imho's Revenge" so I'm not sure who he wants revenge against. Maybe he hates me for... I dunno.

But if anyone thought that war against Exploit was not a good idea, I hope this changes folks minds. I know it solidified things for me. If he is allowed to fully assimilate these Zulu cities (and provide the defense for them), things are going to get dicey. The man has just about double the number of cities of ANYONE ELSE?!?!?

I have some intel on troops in the area.

Puddle Jumper (formerly Dagorlad), on the SW coast - 3 Zulu muskets, and 2 Zulu Elephants. Defiance, which is 4N1E of Puddle Jumper has an Incan rifle, 2 zulu elephants, a zulu musket, a zulu cat and a zulu impi.

Imho's Revenge, which is 5N2E of the new Malinese city of Angband has 5 rifles, a musket, an ele and a mace, all Incan.

I don't know if Imho is going to keep those units in the western cities or gift them to Exploit in the coming turns or what.

So what are thoughts? Brian - I know you were probably the least enthusiastic of any of us to attacking Exploit - do you still feel the same or does this change things for you at all?

Yup - as you probably know already, Imhotep has gifted all his remaining cities to Exploit. So I guess all that talk about being "nobody's vassal" that he made in the Public Player thread was all garbage? Or maybe this is different. Who knows...

I wonder if I've pissed him off somehow.

In any case, we'll see if this changes folks (especially shady's) mind about war with exploit.

[regoarrarr]

This is something I can at least tell you with certainty: The National Park city must control the Forest Preserve tiles in order to get the free specialists from them. Furthermore, the extra point of happiness only goes to whichever city currently controls any give Forest Preserve tile. No double-dipping here!

I whipped up a world builder test and we're both right. You are right that the NP city must control the forest preserve tile to get the free specialist. But any city that has a forest preserve in it gets +1 happy.

I took another look at the Forest Park picture; are you going to Preserve the Furs forest? Might not be a bad idea. You have 13 forests there, more if you get lucky and some grow on the bare tiles (don't put roads there, obviously!). And since preserves are supposed to increase the likelihood of a forest spread, it might just happen.

Yes I plan on preserving the furs forest. There is another city I have to the west that will have furs, though I'm doubting I'll even get it founded before Furs expire anyways.... And yes, I plan on preserving the tiles near the bare tiles first to hopefully get the spread.

Since you have a Library built, and a University queued, I take it that you value beakers over gold? If you did switch to Caste . . . . Well, 13 x 3 of whatever. 39 base beakers or 39 base gold if you go all Scientists or all Merchants. And I'm pretty sure those get multiplied by the appropriate buildings. If you had a Market, Grocer, and Bank, you could get 78 gold per turn, if my math and logic is right. And all the GP points, too, though maybe Great Merchants won't do you much good? Anyway, I generally find that running lots of Merchants helps since you can usually turn the slider up higher, which usually nets you more beakers overall. But just my thoughts. I like the National Park wonder.

To keep you up to date on what I've been doing - sunrise is running 100% gold and financing my techs, and I have run 100% science for pretty much the whole game. I have no markets, banks or grocers in my entire civ (and only 1 courthouse). A very odd configuration for a regular game, but it works for us. So yes, I plan on focusing on scientist specs. And merchants won't help me because I CAN'T run the slider any higher

[regoarrarr]

2 back to back emails from DLer

Thank you very much for the recap, it has enlightened me somewhat on the current state of the game. Ya my land is hurting pretty good and feel as I could help out military wise somewhat my current preference would be to sit back a little bit if possible and repair my lands and absorb more of the current state of the game. I wish that I would have started this game at the beginning but will do my best to try and keep this civs path in the direction that it was taking before I had jumped in.

and

Good to hear from you and I have enjoyed your recap on the game. As for the exploit situation with him and I being cousins in real life that will have no effect on our game. We have been gaming for a very long time and 99% of the time we are at each others throats I seem to come into this game at a bad point for a new player, I am left with trying to fix up my damaged cities and trying to figure out who the alliances are and there true intentions. I am starting to get more comfortable with the game though so thats a good thing. I wish I would of been here since the start though. As for an attack I could help with some troops but would like to sit back and fix up my land for the next little and get a better feel for the route this game and my civ is headed in. But either way I can still supply some troops in a war effort.

He also asked for Railroad in-game with no commentary, which I denied

[regoarrarr]

My reply

Hey there - thanks for the replies! I have to say I was getting a bit worried having not heard back from you in awhile. I guess in this game, with things all being so fluid, it doesn't take much to get me paranoid!!!! :-)

I saw that you requested Railroad in game. Unfortunately with no note and not having heard from you in awhile, I had to deny that request. I am happy to discuss ways that the 2 of us can partner together, including tech gifts like Railroad. I can't afford to give key military techs to people whose alliances I am unsure of.

I understand that you are looking for some time to consolidate some of your war-ravaged empire and that's fair. It doesn't seem fair necessarily to require you to provide the same number of troops as someone who hasn't been at war lately. I also understand that as a replacement player you are still trying to figure out everyone's true intentions, as you said. But that goes both ways - like I said I'm hesitant to give away a key military tech like Railroad until I can be sure what YOUR true intentions are, if that makes sense.

If you are sincere in your desire to provide troops against Exploit (who now has *33* cities!!!!), my suggestion would be to coordinate with Broker. He can help you coordinate with dsplaisted and shadyforce and the other folks over on that side of the world. If he/they are satisfied that you are pulling a representative share of the load, I would be happy to gift Railroad. If you are interested in exploring alternative options such as gpt or resource deals, let me know

[regoarrarr]

A bit of email flying around

shadyforce

Hi all,

Sorry for quietness. Yeah, Exploit has gotten that much bigger thanks to Imhotep's concessions. He needs to be stopped.

Can someone let me know what techs we are researching (and a rough ETA)? Physics, Assembly Line and Combustion? Have we enough income for a 4th researcher?

Good to hear from him and that he is on board

dsp:

I'm researching Physics, due in roughly 10 turns.

I doubt we have the income for a fourth researcher... sending troops into enemy territory is expensive.

Me:

I decided to slip in Communism before Combustion, due in 4t (t191). I will use the Great Spy to infiltrate Exploit, which gives 3000 ep I believe. So I should have full city visibility on his entire empire, which I think will be huge for our upcoming war. I plan on moving on to Combustion after that. Broker said Assembly Line in 11 or 12 turns (198-199) and Daniel should have Physics a turn or two before that. Next techs after that would seem to be Flight, Artillery and Electricity.

I'm actually 1t off as it's T186 now not T187.

Shady just to me

Are you planning on attacking Imhotep's nearest city on your eastern border any time soon?

You probably saw my 2 Galleons. I was preparing for a naval attack on Imho when Exploit nicked his cities. I'm more reluctant to attack Exploit right away because he has more of an army that can hold me off or force me to raze the city even if succesful.

Instead, I'd rather build up a proper landing party and synchronise a naval invasion with yours and Daniel's land-based attacks.

Thoughts?

Me just to shady

I had planned on razing Dagorlad (now the Incan city of Defiance). I want to plant my front city 2NW of that. When it only had Zulu junk in it, I figured it would be easy pickings.

I have 5 cavs, 4 rifles, 2 cats and a mace near Arlington that can be contributed to things. I (think I) decided to continue to send most of my troops to the other front. I will be upgrading a trireme to frigate this turn and will try to get a few more frigates / ironclads as well as a machine gun. Or if you want to provide some of that, that would be great.

I had noticed your galleons and I was figuring (and hoping!) that they were going towards a naval invasion of Imhotep, rather than any other power that borders Caesar Creek Lake (whistle....)

What timeline are you expecting to be able to muster up a sufficient force. I will have communism T190, and I should be able to infiltrate T191. Similarly T191 is the first turn sunrise and the lins can attack (NAP through T190).

I'm happy to start whenever - you've got the units I have (5 cavs, 4 rifles, 2 cats, a mace and a frigate). I have a Cav completing in Arlington in 3 turns, and will trickle some more units this way but the majority of my newly built forces will head west. I also have a pair of fast workers railroading from Arlington towards Defiance. They'll have the rail connection to the hill 2NW of Defiance also on T191. Could be a turn or 3 faster if I commit another pair of workers, which might be an option

Let me know your thoughts.

[regoarrarr]

Email to the lins and sunrise

Okay guys,

Time to start laying the groundwork for our invasion of Exploit. The earliest that the 2 of you can attack is T191, right? I think that we should aim to go around then, potentially delaying for a turn or two if necessary due to tactical considerations.

Exploit currently has investigate city on many of my cities, due to his huge EP spending on me, though I notice that he has stopped spending all his points on me. On T191, hopefully, I will be able to infiltrate his city with the Great Spy from communism, which will turn the tables and allow us to see all of HIS cities, which should give us a great tactical advantage.

I think the primary objective of this war should be the taking of his cities of Evil Eye, Killing Knife, Lin Lost and Pirates Pad, with secondary objective to push into Demon Dirt to shorten the front, and tertiary objectives to clean up his junk cities north of Pirates Pad and the island city of Wild Wonders. I will also be involved pushing on the other side of the world towards the former Zulu lands, but I will be only providing a minimum of force, and counting on shady and dsp (and if possible Broker, Munro and DLer) to do the heavy lifting over there.

Here's the map as I see it

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/318/c...ot0021.jpg

Dreylin - are my maps up to date in that the tile 2SW of Killing Knife is under your cultural control? If so, that might make a good initial thrust, though sunrise I'll of course defer to your judgment. We could stage units in the SW of King City on T-1, then declare war, move 10 tiles on railroads (still need to be constructed in Dreylin's lands but plenty of time) and land on the tile 1SW of Killing Knife. He can reinforce from Evil Eye and Lin Lost, but not from Pirates Pad.

As a reference, he currently has in Lin Lost - 3 rifles, 2 cavs, 3 muskets, 3 elephants and 5 cats. He has more rifles and units in Pirates Pad.

Thoughts? We could also brute force into PP or LL directly. We probably need to keep some units back east of Pirates Pad just in case he tries to strike forward towards Evendale (though under heavy attack I can't see him doing that). But it might allow us to attack in a 2nd thrust, after he's pulled out some of the defenders.

My current force in the area is somewhere around 40 rifles, 12 cannon, and 3 (and growing) machine guns. I was doing some combat testing with Broker today and machine guns are going to laugh off cannons, much less the cats that are the majority of Exploit's siege. So we should be able to just walk our units right up to the city walls and start bombarding.

Map for the lurkers