RB Pitboss #2 [SPOILERS] - Speaker and Sullla

[Shoot the Moon]

So because archers cost 25 hammers, if you overflow more than that (through extra whipping / chopping whatever), anything more than 25 hammers is converted to gold (not sure of the conversion rate).

I believe (from something I remember reading a while ago on CFC) that the most recent patch introduced a bug where you no longer get gold from overflow, unfortunately. They tried to change it in regards to hammer bonus (presumably to nerf the chopping/whipping walls while you are both protective and have stone for massive gold overflow) but instead messed up the code and wound up removing it completely.

[Speaker]

I believe (from something I remember reading a while ago on CFC) that the most recent patch introduced a bug where you no longer get gold from overflow, unfortunately. They tried to change it in regards to hammer bonus (presumably to nerf the chopping/whipping walls while you are both protective and have stone for massive gold overflow) but instead messed up the code and wound up removing it completely.

This is correct.

[Sullla]

I don't know if everyone has been reading Jowy's line of reasoning in the disputes thread, it's pretty hilarious! Apparently, it's OUR fault that war broke out because we happened to spy his sneak attack force!!! Man, that's really something. Obviously we're biased on this subject, but his claims come off as nothing less than absurd to me. Ah well, I wonder what all of you think?

We've finished our turn but not ended it, waiting to see what Dantski does. (Speaker and I are concerned about Dantski, we actually think we're OK as far as Jowy and athlete go.) Here's our disposition of forces:



Obviously don't let on any of that info to the other teams! Thanks.

The Excel file is filled out and updated with the new military stuff:

http://www.cassiopeiathedog.net/Images/P.../RBPB2.xls

BAD news from Nakor though:

Dear Sullla,

We noticed that Greece declared war on you.
That makes our proposal a bit more problematic.

Sorry I couldn't reply sooner, the first 2 days of the week are my most hectic. Lot's of classes to teach and meetings to attend to.

Thanks for the warning regarding Rome, but Greece isn't that good a neighbour either. And neither is Romali.
Once the threat of the preats is gone, he's just another opponent. So we try to stay friendly for as long as that takes.
And of course we'll be aware of a possible trap.
As we're sure you were with Jowy, though we thought you feared Dantski more at the moment.

How do you think this war will evolve? Will Dantski join?
What do you think we can do?

Good luck with the war (though we don't think you need to much of it, being the experienced players you two are),

Nakor of HRE

Argh, they're backing out of our agreement completely!!! Looks like they just want to sit on the fence and watch the carnage. I guess I can't blame them, it makes for a decent metagaming strategy, but wow does it ever suck for us.

Umm, any possible idea of how to get them to intervene on our side in this war? Anyone?

[Reagan]

I've only read your thread, so I'm not privy to any spoilers from the other teams.

Maybe I'm just viewing it in a positive light because I like you guys, but I didn't read Nakor's response as declining to help relative to Dantski. If the threat of having Nakor open a second front keeps Dantski from attacking for a few more turns, he'll have provided benefits without joining in the Jowy/athlete fray. From his standpoint, there's not a lot Nakor can do to help unless and until Dantski makes a move. To do otherwise could leave him open to an attack from Dantski after moving troops up to help you.

On the Jowy/athlete front, I'm getting the impression you're going to play defense and are exepecting them to pound their heads against your cities. True? How well positioned do you think you are to take out their troops if they decide to simply move around trying to pillage and stagnate your growth? How do you answer that question if Dantski joins in from the south before you've dealt with the northern invader(s)?

[Sullla]

Actually, scratch that, inspiration just struck. Here's how we try to convince Nakor to help us out:

Dear Nakor and DMOC of Holy Rome,

I'm sensing that your team is wavering a bit because of the Jowy war declaration. Let me use this message to get you back on board with our team! :)

We'll be honest with you: our scouting unit uncovered an attack force containing units not just from Jowy, but from athlete and kalin as well. We have an old Non-Aggression Pact with their team, and when it runs out in two turns, they are going to declare war on us too. We expect that Dantski is in on this plan, and will be at war with us before the end of the current turn, if he isn't already by the time that you get this message....

So with all that in mind, here's why you should join OUR side of the battle instead of sitting around doing nothing!

1) Dantski is going to move most of his units into our territory, if he hasn't already done so. That will leave his backline cities, especially Gao, open to an attack. You do want to claim that iron and clear out some space for Crydee, right? This is your chance to do it!

2) We're pretty confident that we can fight off Jowy and athlete with the units we have right now. The main thing we need is a little relief from Dantski; in return for your support, we'd be willing to reward your team very handsomely in the postwar era. Partition of Dantski's land, gold per turn (once one of us discovers Currency), resources - it's all on the table to discuss. We can guarantee you won't find a better ally than our team!

(Are you really going to put your faith in Whosit? Yeah, OF COURSE he's going to be all smiles and friendliness now, after he's got enough land to become the game superpower. What do you think is going to happen after he runs out of room again down the road?!)

3) Let's assume you sit back and do nothing. In a worst-case scenario, the three teams attack and destroy my team. Then let's see what you have: a much stronger Dantski and Jowy, joined together at the hip in a tight alliance, with a friendly athlete to boot. Where do you think their armies are going to go next, eh? Not north! That's where athlete is located. They'd both have no choice but to come south, and then your team is on the other end of the dogpile. I hope you don't think Whosit would ride to the rescue! :)

4) In contrast, let's say you provide us some assistance, just enough to keep Dantski honest. You're likely to take Gao at the very least, and once we drive back Jowy and athlete, we'll turn our forces south and help you destroy Dantski for good. (We'll put this in formal writing if you like, a pledge that we will kill Dantski with you before we go after Jowy.) Now the two of us have partitioned Dantski's territory, and Speaker and I still have two hostile teams to the north. *ALL* of our future expansion would be towards them. We are seriously pissed over here, and we want some payback at their expense. You'd have a rock-solid ally at your back, double your current territory, and the possibility to work east around the map's edge to expand further.

I'd say that's a lot better than sitting on the fence and doing nothing while Dantski becomes stronger! ;)

I know that Jowy, athlete, and kalin are Nakor's teammates in RBPB3, but keep in mind that that's a totally different game. There's no reason to let that affect the diplomacy in this game. The fact of the matter is, we can offer you a better deal than these other teams. We'd love to have you as our ally for the rest of this game!

Sullla
The Killer Angels

That's the best I can do... I'm just going to go ahead and send it, because time is important right now.

EDIT: Thanks, Reagan. We'd honestly love to see them waste a few turns pillaging, as every turn they wait to attack allows us to amass more units on defense. This is a cardinal rule of attacking in Civ4: go straight to the target and attack immediately. Every turn you spend in enemy territory lowers your chances of success, because the game favors the defender so heavily. If we get 8 or so turns, we'll have catapults, and that will be the end of their stacks!

With Dantski, we're just going to turtle in our cities for the moment. Gettysburg and Antietam are both 40% defense capitals on a hill; he would get slaughtered attacking either without cats to drop defenses or deal collateral. Can't say more than that at the moment until we see what he has, where he attacks, or even if he attacks!

[novice]

Yep, that is an inspired message.

EDIT: I see you edited the introduction slightly (to the better). I assume the edited version is what you actually sent.

[Speaker]

Well written, Sullla. Let's get in touch with Athlete's other neighbor as well and let them know that he sent "all his units" over to attack us. Maybe they might feel inclined to try and attack him, which would hamper him a bit.

Dear India,

Greece offers to trade their latter half of the turn for the following cities:
- Chancellorsville
- Hampton Roads

And in addition there would be 5 turns of peace between our civilizations to celebrate this settlement. Don't want my toga parties to be ruined by uninvited guests!

~ Jowy

That's quite a bit of bravado for a guy who had to bring in 2 other teams to help him attack the big bad bully who proposed non-aggression pacts and offered to send over a free missionary. If he came at us solo, he'd get absolutely slaughtered.

Now, here's the question, Sullla: is Jowy devious enough to throw some misinformation into his trash talk? Or did he just tip his hand that he really wants Chancellorsville and Hampton Roads? I'm inclined to think the latter. His actions and responses so far this game have shown me a guy who is very straightforward. Those cities "fit" better with his borders as well. What do you think?

[Sullla]

I think you're 100% correct, Speaker. Nice catch! He just revealed his war aims and where he's likely to attack! And remember all that protesting he did over the location of Chancellorsville, saying how it was an "aggressive city location"? Based on those posts, the prior diplo, and the unit moves this turn, I think we can key on Chancellorsville as his likely target.

That's quite a bit of bravado for a guy who had to bring in 2 other teams to help him attack the big bad bully who proposed non-aggression pacts and offered to send over a free missionary. If he came at us solo, he'd get absolutely slaughtered.

Well said indeed!

I'm not sure where to contact dsplaisted - is he using the old IKZ email account or what? - so I'll send him a PM asking about it.

[Sareln]

Any news from Nakor & DMOC? How many more turns before you can start manufacturing catapults?

[Sullla]

Cats are some distance away, unfortunately. Looking like we'll get Construction sometime around Turn 105-106. They won't be a factor in this initial round of battles.

Dantski logged into the turn with a mere 15 minutes left, and it looked for sure like a sneak attack was coming our way. But I jumped into the game and managed to chat him up; Dantski seemed really confused, giving off the vibe that he was unhappy with the game and doesn't have an idea of how to proceed. He said he was not going to attack us, and indeed, he finished his turn without doing so! Wow, didn't see that coming! Great news for us.

Dantski seemed to think we were going to settle on his border (apparently there's some iron just south of Antietam); I told him we had enough problems on our hands, and that we were going to conquer a source of iron from Jowy. I pushed him for an NAP, but he was non-commital. Time to send him a "stalling" message; we just need him to hold off on doing anything for about 5 turns.

Dear Dantski,

It was nice to get the chance to speak with you in-game today! Our last couple emails seemed to fall on deaf ears. I'm sorry if we came across as hostile in some of our messages; when you rejected our Non-Aggression Pact, started running Espionage points against us, and Closed Borders... well, it wasn't the friendliest picture from our point of view!

Let's at least open the lines of communications again between our teams. I know you're a little frustrated with Nakor; we saw where he put Crydee next to Gao, and wow, that's a tight squeeze! What are your thoughts going forward? We could discuss a new Non-Aggression Pact if you like, possible cooperation in the future, you name it.

Obviously our focus will be on stopping Jowy; he's the one we have a bone to pick with, not you!

Sullla
The Killer Angels

That message avoids committing us to anything; I just want to stall Dantski for a little bit until we can smash Jowy and athlete's invading stacks. If he offered an NAP, I think we would have to decline (well, just not respond to the email message). Of course, a lot depends on what Nakor says back to us. If they continue to sit on the fence, we can make a deal with Dantski and say screw 'em.

dsplaisted told us to contact him at the old IKZ email address, so:

Dear dsplaisted of IKZ (do you still go by IKZ?),

Greetings! I should have written earlier, but we didn't know if you were going to be more than a temporary replacement player, and afterwards I plain forgot to say hello. Let this be an introductory message, and I'd like to wish your team the best of luck going forward. How are things over on the eastern side of the world?

Getting back to business though, I'm sure you saw that Jowy has declared war on our team. What you probably don't know is that athlete and kalin are in on his nefarious scheme, and the bulk of the Ottoman army is over in Greek territory, getting ready to attack us. I have no idea what your relations are like with athlete and kalin, but we thought you might like to know that there's little more than a skeleton military defending the Ottoman cities right now. Just thought you might find that "interesting" information.

Looking forward to talking with you again!
Sullla
The Killer Angels

And just to let our allies know what's going on:

Dear Broker and plako,

You probably saw that Jowy has declared war on us this turn, and moved a stack of phalanxes up to our border. We are expecting athlete and kalin to declare war on us next turn (Turn 100) as well; they have a stack of units hiding out in Greek territory. We're pretty confident that we can weather the storm unless something really unexpected shows up...

We'll keep you informed of what's going on. It's our hope that we can help get you back in the game and play a major role before all is said and done.

Cheers,
Sullla
The Killer Angels

Oh, and to clear things up with athlete and kalin:

Dear Rebel Alliance,

Hmmm, we interpreted our NAP as lasting until the end of Turn 100, but it's not a huge deal. I guess we'll be seeing you on the battlefield next turn then... Still not too late to change your mind though - no need to waste your horses fighting someone else's war!

Sullla
The Killer Angels

I hope all the war turns aren't as stressful as this first one has been...